Author Topic: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog  (Read 39295 times)

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #255 on: May 25, 2016, 10:20:33 AM »
The bottom one that elmer posted, I could live with. Let's see what it looks like on a TV.

The title on the title screen has to match the title of the game. In addition, it has to look good. Adhering to the style of the original is a nice bonus if we can get it, but I wouldn't want it to come at the sacrifice of either of the first two things. 風の伝説ザナドゥ is eight characters, only three of which are kanji, while The Legend of Xanadu is twenty; it really doesn't seem inappropriate to recast the style entirely, and I dare say that that's probably what Falcom would have done if they had made the art for an English localization themselves.

The point of those images I posted was only to show that 240x32 is enough space to approach the title screen text in a variety of ways.

Black Tiger, your work was great before we realized we needed a "The" in there, and it might work out yet. Like I said, all I really care about is that it has the complete title and it looks good.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 04:31:57 PM by SamIAm »

Dicer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #256 on: May 25, 2016, 11:38:48 AM »
I prefer the top, the smaller THE and OF don't look stretched to me, where the bottom one does, regardless it's bang up work either way...

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #257 on: May 25, 2016, 04:28:19 PM »
Here's the new logo (larger text version) working in the game ...




I like it!  :D

Let's hope it works well on SamIAm's TV.

There's still the question of whether the title should actually be "Legend of the Wind II" ... but let's leave that discussion for another day.

BTW ... the horizontal crossbars in the large E and A are above the centerline of each glyph, so I don't see any visual disconnect in having the crossbars in the small text also be just above the centerline.

NightWolve

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #258 on: May 26, 2016, 09:27:22 AM »
There's still the question of whether the title should actually be "Legend of the Wind II" ... but let's leave that discussion for another day.

Eh, "Xanadu" is just so well known (add in that movie!), it'd be very tough to justify its removal. I hated these sticking points in projects... Sometimes Falcom really did do a bad enough job to ignore precedent/history of documents/printed materials/game script (like say "Romn" which Konami later localized to "Romun" for Ys VI). I foolishly went back to the Ys IV script, changed it to "Romn" so it all looked the same with the PC version's manuals/script/website/etc. but after Konami, it was like, duh, did I really need their precedent-setting PS2 release in the US to realize I shouldn't have done that ?? Heh.

deubeul

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #259 on: May 26, 2016, 09:43:17 AM »





A prettier font and some hand shading/touching up, and I think we can do this. It's fine to make the "The" and "of" smaller, too, as long as it's in moderation.





Font consideration apart, I love the fact that you use upper and lower case, It makes the "II" stand out.

« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 09:47:00 AM by deubeul »

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #260 on: May 26, 2016, 10:40:31 AM »
I've asked to see what the logo would be like if the logo font were made a little bit narrower, but it never happened, and so I decided to spend some time in grafx and try it myself.

Changing the width of the stems of each letter from 6 pixels to 5 pixels give us back a whole lot of space.

I've used that space to make the "The" and the "Of" wider again, and to restore the larger "II" and space it out so that it doesn't get lost in the main logo.

The Xanadu 2 logo now fits in the 240 pixels that are allowed for for it, meaning that I wouldn't have to jump through hoops to make it work in the Opening Visual.

What do folks think? Is this an improvement on yesterday's versions?








Wider font version ...



« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 10:44:58 AM by elmer »

johnnykonami

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #261 on: May 26, 2016, 10:49:41 AM »
I honestly think this one looks best, with "The" and "of" staying the same size.


NightWolve

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #262 on: May 26, 2016, 11:13:32 AM »
I can't choose...

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #263 on: May 26, 2016, 03:46:53 PM »
                 

Three out of three people I have asked, with no explanation beyond presenting both images at the same time and asking which they prefer, have pointed to the mock-up with equal-sized lettering.

Two of those people were Japanese, and they said something kind of obvious from which I think a lesson can be drawn: The equal-sized lettering is much easier to read.

If you take any one letter from BT's image, excluding the THE and the OF, and compare it to the corresponding letter from the mock-up I made, BT's letter looks better, no question. However, I still think the fact that it was retro-fitted from having no THE at all to its current state has made it deeply flawed. Otherwise, my highly amateur mock-up shouldn't have been able to even compete with it.

Elmer's latest version is a definite improvement. Besides the larger THE, the II really needed more separation, and now it's got it. If we go with that, I'll basically be satisfied.

However, I would really be interested in seeing more mock-ups made with equal-sized lettering (or at least closer to equal if someone can make that work - I obviously couldn't). I honestly think that if we took that approach with a better font than the one I used, then took the time to add a bit of shading and touch up whatever else by hand, we could get something that has the best of both worlds.

Black Tiger, if you would like to make that kind of mock-up, I'd love to see it.

At this point, I want to see a whole smorgasbord of mock-ups, and in addition to making more of my own, I would like to invite anyone else who has a vision of what this title screen could look like to contribute. After all, if I can make a mock-up, anyone can. You wouldn't need to polish anything - just make sure it fits into 240x32 and uses the same colors from the original.

Here's a blank background and the original image:
             

Of course, "The Legend of Xanadu II" and "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind II" (dropping or changing the hyphen is fine) are both welcome.

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #264 on: May 26, 2016, 04:07:40 PM »
To get the ball rolling, here's my first mock-up with a sloppy attempt at shading.



I think it at least shows that we ought to be able to get shading in there even with equal sized lettering.

Next, I'll try some different fonts.

NightWolve

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #265 on: May 26, 2016, 04:30:48 PM »
Of course, "The Legend of Xanadu II" and "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind II" (dropping or changing the hyphen is fine) are both welcome.

Oh, silly me, right, it wasn't about dropping Xanadu. This "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind" subtitle business. Even if it's technically more accurate, I think it sounds terrible and takes some punch out of what's already a great title. I'd leave it alone.

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #266 on: May 26, 2016, 05:12:17 PM »
Another not-awesome-but-thought-provoking mock-up:


(234x30, Deftone Stylus)

I chose this font as an example of a thicker cursive style that is really easy to shade (not that I did a particularly great job of shading). The image I posted previously had a few places where there was only one dark blue-green pixel in between the light blue outline, such as the upper left parts of the lowercase A's, and it became impossible to apply formulaic interior shading there. With something like this, that's not a problem. There's even enough room to apply something like a horizontal gradient shade if we want to.

With this font, I can't say I'm in love with the T, the X, or of course the II. Don't ask me why the lowercase U came out so short, either. Anyway, it's interesting. If the question is "Can we fit legible, cursive, outlined letters in that space and still have room for shading?" this gives us the answer: absolutely.

Something just a little "tighter" all around could look nice.

Next, I'll try something more print-like.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 05:37:29 PM by SamIAm »

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #267 on: May 26, 2016, 06:35:56 PM »
Another not-awesome-but-thought-provoking mock-up:



Oh, dear Sam, that may be one of the ugliest mock-ups that I've ever seen ... I could even have nightmares!  :lol:

Perhaps we should leave the experimentation to folks who have an "artistic" eye!  #-o

I rule myself out on that account ... and you're teetering on the borderline with that last screenshot.  :wink:

If you want to keep on going ... may I suggest Berthold Nofret Std Medium Italic ...

https://www.linotype.com/260403/nofret-medium-italic-product.html?showVariation=261622

It's one of my favorite fonts, and I have a licensed copy of it around here somewhere!

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #268 on: May 26, 2016, 07:02:59 PM »
It is pretty gross, isn't it?  :mrgreen:

I'll try that font later, thanks!

Phase

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #269 on: May 26, 2016, 08:25:00 PM »
I gave it a shot, tried to make it like the cover art.
Not sure how it would look on a tv could be too aliased?