Xanadu II Translation Development Blog

[SamIAm]

Hudson developed that one under license from Falcom, so it doesn't usually make the list of official Dragon Slayer series games. The story is completely unique, too.

[Bonknuts]

How do you know Falcom wasn't involved in it? Falcom have worked with Hudson on quite a few projects.

[SamIAm]

I didn't know, so I just looked it up.

Hiromasa Iwasaki was a very prolific and prominent Hudson programmer. He contributed lots of articles and reviews to PC Engine magazines, and even showed up on TV a few times. One of the more impressive things he did was port Ys I&II.

Unlike a lot of Japanese developers who are quiet and private, he's always been very forthcoming with stories. Here, he tells a very long story about how the Ys port came to be, and it's pretty good. I'd translate it if I weren't so dang busy already.

http://peke.ojaru.jp/ys/

About Faxanadu and Ys...

Apparently, Hudson was supposed to do a fairly straight port of the original Xanadu to the Famicom. However, Iwasaki's colleague who was tasked with the job, a guy named Okuno, thought that the game stunk, so he changed it.

Wikipedia confirms that Famicom Xanadu was advertised as the original Xanadu right up until the release. When it came out, a lot of gamers were angry and disappointed, and reviews panned it on the point of being different alone.

According to Iwasaki, Falcom was pissed, too.

Some months later, Iwasaki was playing Ys on PC and thought it was great, so he approached Falcom together with Bomberman creator and then Hudson executive Shinichi Nakamoto about doing a port. They literally went to Falcom's office together to make their case, and Falcom's president sat across from them scoffing and otherwise looking none-too-friendly.

Iwasaki supposes that Falcom didn't want Hudson to port it, but also wanted to maintain a business relationship, and so didn't want to turn Hudson down outright. Instead, he thinks that the Falcom president offered them a price for the license that he was expecting to be too high. Nakamoto agreed to it immediately.

Back at headquarters, when asked how the hell they were ever going to make a profit, Nakamoto said "We're going to sell CD systems with this, that's how."

[NightWolve]

I didn't know, so I just looked it up.

Hiromasa Iwasaki was a very prolific and prominent Hudson programmer. He contributed lots of articles and reviews to PC Engine magazines, and even showed up on TV a few times. One of the more impressive things he did was port Ys I&II.

I can't find it ATM, and I know I've seen it before translated somewhere, but he shared that it was his idea to put both Ys I & II together to make it a more fuller/complete game. That was a condition he put forth, only wanting to port it if he could put them both together, something like that. Falcom later copied the idea with the limited edition of Ys I & II Complete back over for the Windows PC platform, putting them together and allowing for the launching of Ys II right after beating Ys I.

I thought it was here, http://shmuplations.com/ys/, but maybe it was in crazy John's Kickstarter book ? Darnet, I can't find where that interview was... I'm sure someone here must remember it, might've got linked here somewhere.

[SamIAm]

That's right. That's exactly what it says on that page.

[elmer]

I didn't know, so I just looked it up.

I'm reasonably good at what I do ... but your ability to be in a position to say things like that just puts me to shame at times.  :oops:

Apparently, Hudson was supposed to do a fairly straight port of the original Xanadu to the Famicom. However, Iwasaki's colleague who was tasked with the job, a guy named Okuno, thought that the game stunk, so he changed it.

Wikipedia confirms that Famicom Xanadu was advertised as the original Xanadu right up until the release. When it came out, a lot of gamers were angry and disappointed, and reviews panned it on the point of being different alone.

According to Iwasaki, Falcom was pissed, too.

That's not exactly unusual for the time period.

For anyone that's worked in an modern job that's had to deal with licensed properties, such as TV, movies, books, or sports, it'll probably seem like a very strange concept.

Modern companies protect their IP, and their "brand" vigorously.

It just wasn't like that in the 1980s and 1990s for Arcade Games and Video Games.

They just weren't seen as long-term investments in a "brand" that could make more money from marketing than from the original idea itself.

I never had to deal with, or consider, the wishes of the original creators, nor even talk to them, in anything that I did in the 1980s or early 1990s ... and that consists of a number of high-profile (at the time) properties.

It wasn't until later on that I dealt with Disney and Nickelodean that I really learned just how carefully some folks protect their IP, and how much control they insist on having over the final product (by which I mean "game", unfortunately ... the distinction between "entertainment" and "fun" and "joy",  and just plain "product" is one of the first things that you lose when you go "pro").

Back at headquarters, when asked how the hell they were ever going to make a profit, Nakamoto said "We're going to sell CD systems with this, that's how."

He wasn't exactly wrong, was he! A smart business-guy.

[joobloo]

How about:

The Legend of Xanadu: Tale of the Wind
The Legend of Xanadu II: The Last Dragon Slayer

Those are some pretty badass sounding games.  Also avoids the double "Legend" in the first game's title.  "Story of the Wind" could maybe work too?

[SamIAm]

I'm reasonably good at what I do ... but your ability to be in a position to say things like that just puts me to shame at times.  :oops:

Well, you're probably a better programmer than I am a translator. 

Anyway, it's nice to have access to this info when it's out there.

Actually, because the Japanese internet world is a little stunted compared the to English internet world, there is a lot less effort put into archiving information. Many pages full of interesting info put up 10-15 years ago by people in the industry or people typing up what they found in old magazines are gone now, like so many dinky little geocities pages.

I ought to see if I can find some Falcom retrospectives. They might even have something interesting to say about Faxanadu...it was, after all, a pretty cool creation on its own.

That's not exactly unusual for the time period.

For anyone that's worked in an modern job that's had to deal with licensed properties, such as TV, movies, books, or sports, it'll probably seem like a very strange concept.

Modern companies protect their IP, and their "brand" vigorously.

It just wasn't like that in the 1980s and 1990s for Arcade Games and Video Games.

They just weren't seen as long-term investments in a "brand" that could make more money from marketing than from the original idea itself.

I never had to deal with, or consider, the wishes of the original creators, nor even talk to them, in anything that I did in the 1980s or early 1990s ... and that consists of a number of high-profile (at the time) properties.

It wasn't until later on that I dealt with Disney and Nickelodean that I really learned just how carefully some folks protect their IP, and how much control they insist on having over the final product (by which I mean "game", unfortunately ... the distinction between "entertainment" and "fun" and "joy",  and just plain "product" is one of the first things that you lose when you go "pro").

Interesting. Would you say it was the mid-late 90s when that finally seemed to change and IP defensiveness became more universal in games?

[dshadoff]

Apparently, Hudson was supposed to do a fairly straight port of the original Xanadu to the Famicom. However, Iwasaki's colleague who was tasked with the job, a guy named Okuno, thought that the game stunk, so he changed it.

Wikipedia confirms that Famicom Xanadu was advertised as the original Xanadu right up until the release. When it came out, a lot of gamers were angry and disappointed, and reviews panned it on the point of being different alone.

According to Iwasaki, Falcom was pissed, too.

That's not exactly unusual for the time period.

I remember going to an intellectual property rights seminar as a teenager in the mid-80's, and the subject was the then-newish concept of moral rights.

In Canada at least, the Berne Convention (old law, predating computers) was the prevailing set of laws governing all works until the early '80's when they were refined - mostly based on the American updates made in the Copyright Act of 1976.  The Berne Convention had a lot of gaps in it, as compared to today's copyright laws.

There was a particular case which made headlines around that time. however: Snow v Eaton Center.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_v_Eaton_Centre_Ltd

The summary is that Eaton Centre (a mall) had bought a work of art - a set of sculptures of geese in flight, intended to displayed in a particular way.  During the Christmas season of 1981, somebody got the smart idea of tying red ribbons around the necks of the goose sculptures.

The artist sued and eventually won.  His point was that they had effectively defaced the sculpture and (in his opinion) caused damage to his reputation.  So by extending that logic, the originator of a work has moral rights of how a work is to be used, beyond ownership of the work itself.

Of course, this was all new stuff in law (which tends to move slowly), and was certainly not part of any multi-country signatory treaty yet... but I understood at the time that there were a few similar cases occurring in other countries too.

Now, For Faxanadu to be blatantly changed dramatically would probably not pass muster under this law (but this was new stuff, and as I said... didn't apply everywhere yet).  But I still would have expected it to happen differently than described in two key ways:

1) I would have thought that Falcom would have been smart enough to put a clause into the contract that they would have a right of approval over the final work.  But I guess this period was still early days and they were green.  And this was Japan.

2) I would have expected the decision to change the game to have been made by a team, a team lead, or a manager of some sort, rather than an individual programmer.  That's what surprised me most about this story.

Interesting. Would you say it was the mid-late 90s when that finally seemed to change and IP defensiveness became more universal in games?

Well... in North America, I think that the Atari/"E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" debacle was probably the point at which people started to think "maybe I should take an active role in what the game looks like".  there was likely a counterpart in the NES timeframe too.

-Dave

[SamIAm]

2) I would have expected the decision to change the game to have been made by a team, a team lead, or a manager of some sort, rather than an individual programmer.  That's what surprised me most about this story.

A couple of quick notes.

Mr. Okuno is listed as a programmer in many games, but he is also described as the "core developer" of the first Power League games. He might have been programmer and leader of the Faxanadu project.

Curiously, the only credits I can find for Faxanadu list two people: Okuno and the music composer.

Also, Takahashi Meijin's ephemeral blog, captured here in archive (I'm telling you, there are tons of dead links out there to really interesting looking stuff), makes it sound like it might have been more of a group decision. Without saying who thought it, he says it was thought that the puzzle elements of Xanadu would be too difficult for elementary school students, and that was a strong impetus for changing the game.

[Bonknuts]

So Hudson went on to do Popful Mail, Ys 3, the two Legend of Heroes games - all ports. But non of these Legend of Xanadu games are ports. If Falcom and Hudson didn't have this cozy relationship, then what exactly are these games if they aren't ports? Ys IV is an odd one out here as well (which Falcom claims isn't the official version). Because Falcom only did computer stuff.

[Black Tiger]

So Hudson went on to do Popful Mail, Ys 3, the two Legend of Heroes games - all ports. But non of these Legend of Xanadu games are ports. If Falcom and Hudson didn't have this cozy relationship, then what exactly are these games if they aren't ports? Ys IV is an odd one out here as well (which Falcom claims isn't the official version). Because Falcom only did computer stuff.

The first The Legend of Xanadu was published by NEC.

[elmer]

But non of these Legend of Xanadu games are ports. If Falcom and Hudson didn't have this cozy relationship, then what exactly are these games if they aren't ports? Ys IV is an odd one out here as well (which Falcom claims isn't the official version). Because Falcom only did computer stuff.

This is the whole point with the Legend of Xanadu games ... they're unique games created specifically for the PC Engine by Falcom themselves. There's no Hudson involvement.

Legend of Xanadu 1 is the very first console game that Falcom ever did themselves.

Legend of Xanadu 2 is the 3rd console game that Falcom ever did themselves (SNES Popful Mail is the  2nd, and hardly counts because it was just an upgraded port of their own earlier game).

[Black Tiger]

But non of these Legend of Xanadu games are ports. If Falcom and Hudson didn't have this cozy relationship, then what exactly are these games if they aren't ports? Ys IV is an odd one out here as well (which Falcom claims isn't the official version). Because Falcom only did computer stuff.

This is the whole point with the Legend of Xanadu games ... they're unique games created specifically for the PC Engine by Falcom themselves. There's no Hudson involvement.

Legend of Xanadu 1 is the very first console game that Falcom ever did themselves.

Legend of Xanadu 2 is the 3rd console game that Falcom ever did themselves (SNES Popful Mail is the  2nd, and hardly counts because it was just an upgraded port of their own earlier game).

The only thing that Popful Mail for SFC and Mega-CD share with their earlier game is characters, and misc events and items. Only the PC Engine version is an upgraded console port of the original.

[SamIAm]

So Hudson went on to do Popful Mail, Ys 3, the two Legend of Heroes games - all ports. But non of these Legend of Xanadu games are ports. If Falcom and Hudson didn't have this cozy relationship, then what exactly are these games if they aren't ports? Ys IV is an odd one out here as well (which Falcom claims isn't the official version). Because Falcom only did computer stuff.

Faxanadu came out in November 1987, while The Legend of Xanadu 1 was announced in the spring of 1992.

When the port of Ys 1&2 came out in December 1989, it was received as the best version of the game(s) and a general triumph for reasons we all know, and I'm sure this success helped thaw any cold feelings between the companies. Ys 3 and the Dragon Slayer - Legend of Heroes games, all ported by Hudson, were basically well received, too. I think Falcom was justifiably excited by the CD platform and the Falcom fans that had congregated to it when they decided to make The Legend of Xanadu.

Ys 4 was a unique experiment. Falcom made the game only as far as the design document and musical score, then handed it out to three developers working on three different platforms to actually create - Hudson for the PCE, Tonkin House for the Super Famicom, and Sega for the Mega CD.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who knows this, but there was indeed supposed to be a Mega CD version of Ys 4. Sega and Falcom were buddy-buddy because a couple of the executives were friends on a private basis. The whole story about Popful Mail being originally slated to come to the Mega CD as Sister Sonic is true - I have an article from a period magazine that describes all of this. Anyway, we all know which ideas they decided to go with and which they didn't.

It appears, by the way, that Ys 4 on Super Famicom was accepted as canon because it stuck to Falcom's design document more closely.

But yes, the Legend of Xanadu games on PCE were both the first Falcom games on PCE that weren't ports, and also the very first console games that Falcom actually made themselves. Until they started making games for the PSP in 2006, they only made four console games in-house total: Legend of Xanadu 1 and 2 for PCE, and Popful Mail and Ys 5 for Super Famicom. All four came out in 1994 and 1995.

If you're interested, I actually attempted a "Let's Read" of the PC Engine Fan magazine issue where Ys 4 and The Legend of Xanadu were announced. At the time, there were no details given about The Legend of Xanadu, even the title. Still, Hudson described it as being as important as Squaresoft deciding to make games for Nintendo.

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=18877.msg401745#msg401745

The first The Legend of Xanadu was published by NEC.

Yes, but only published. It was created entirely by Falcom themselves.

Also, according to the Japanese wikipedia article, NEC paid for a roughly $3,000,000 TV ad campaign for Legend of Xanadu 1. I wouldn't be surprised if that had been promised at the beginning to help get Falcom aboard.

The only thing that Popful Mail for SFC and Mega-CD share with their earlier game is characters, and misc events and items. Only the PC Engine version is an upgraded console port of the original.

The point is, it was made in-house by Falcom, unlike the Mega CD version that was made by Sega or the PCE version that was made by NEC Home Electronics.  That, and the SFC game isn't unique enough to be as outstanding on a timeline as a completely new game.

Although it seems Falcom didn't seem to have their best people working on the Super Famicom, because Popful Mail SFC and Ys 5 aren't very good.

EDIT: I'll be damned. The same guy who programmed the PC original also did the SFC version.

As a Popful Mail fan, I have to add, it wouldn't be fair to say that the SFC and Mega CD versions of Popful Mail are equally removed from the original. The SFC version is a pretty drastic reimagining, but the Mega CD version's game progression, map layout, and even script are based heavily on the original.

PS: One of my favorite things about The Legend of Xanadu 1 is that it has some Popful Mail in its blood. Yoshio Kiya directed them both. Popful Mail is much goofier, and Xanadu 1 has a much more developed story, but the games share the same kind of Falcom-esque goofiness.