Author Topic: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog  (Read 39403 times)

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #210 on: May 11, 2016, 08:59:25 AM »
I updated my previous post with some new screengrabs.

Black Tiger's excellent English logo is now recolored for Xanadu 1 and has been inserted into the game's Opening Visual.

I've also tweaked the other graphics a bit ... pure upper case just looks too much like "shouting".  :wink:

Apart from the Credits Roll, I think that's all of the text-in-graphics for Xanadu 1 ... and the credits can wait for a while.

So on to Xanadu 2.  :)

esteban

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #211 on: May 11, 2016, 09:33:27 AM »
Fantastic progress. :)
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seieienbu

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #212 on: May 11, 2016, 11:11:49 AM »





I always found the game's title a bit funny.  It is clearly titled "The Legend of Xanadu" in English.  However, right below that on the cover and next to it on the spine is Japanese text reading "Kaze no Densetsu Xanadu" or something like "The Winds of Legend of Xanadu," "The Wind's Legend Xanadu," or maybe even "The Legendary Winds of Xanadu."

Maybe SamIAm can tell me what's actually going on there?

...seriously though, this is looking great.
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ccovell

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #213 on: May 11, 2016, 11:55:58 AM »
"Kaze no Densetsu" actually means "Legend of the Wind" (literally), not "wind of legend" or "legendary".  It's a point I've seen translators mess up a few times.

"Densetsu no..." means "legendary...".  Word order is important, otherwise the possessor becomes the possessed.

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #214 on: May 11, 2016, 12:52:10 PM »
This is one of those things that elmer and I have talked about briefly but never come to any decision on because it's going to be a pain in the butt.


seieienbu

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #215 on: May 11, 2016, 01:13:30 PM »
"Kaze no Densetsu" actually means "Legend of the Wind" (literally), not "wind of legend" or "legendary".  It's a point I've seen translators mess up a few times.

"Densetsu no..." means "legendary...".  Word order is important, otherwise the possessor becomes the possessed.

It's been a while since college so I'm a bit rusty on my Japanese, but didn't the 'no' particle essentially mean the same as a possessive apostroph followed by an 's'?  For example, "Fred の本" would mean "Fred's Book."

That being the case, doesn't the legend now belong to the wind?
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ccovell

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #216 on: May 11, 2016, 01:28:43 PM »
Yes, so "Wind's Legend" is technically correct... but totally nonstandard in English.  That's why most titles are written "(The) Legend of...".

Alternately, since from my experience Japanese titles (sentences, even) can be a nonsensical word salad and nobody bats an eye:

The 'kaze no' in "Kaze no Densetsu" could even be interpreted as an adjective, something like "Windy Legend".  Because after all, the main title and subtitle of the games are conflicting: which is it, the Legend of Xanadu, or the Legend of the Wind?  Or is it the Windy Legend of Xanadu?  Or is it the Legend of the Wind, named Xanadu?  You can see how wishy-washy dreamy titles written only for aesthetic purposes throws more logical-minded English people for a loop.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 01:35:31 PM by ccovell »

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #217 on: May 11, 2016, 01:41:01 PM »
ccovell is right. 風の伝説 is "Legend of the Wind" and 伝説の風 is "Legendary Winds".

Both appear in this game, by the way.

As for the possessive bit, you're just overthinking that a little, I think. "Of" is possessive, e.g. the flag of America is America's flag.

Is "The Legend of Paul Bunyan" the same as "Paul Bunyan's Legend"? Well, you could nitpick and say that the former is a legend about Paul Bunyan, while the latter might be construed as being a legend that Paul is literally carrying in his hands. But as far as の is concerned, it definitely has that "of" capacity. 風の谷のナウシカ is Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind.

の is possessive, but it's flexible in ways you wouldn't think based on English grammar.
サムのバカ!means Sam, you're an idiot!  私の行った所 is "The place I went to" (My went-there place).
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 03:39:05 PM by SamIAm »

esteban

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Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #218 on: May 11, 2016, 03:40:19 PM »

I always found the game's title a bit funny.  It is clearly titled "The Legend of Xanadu" in English.  However, right below that on the cover and next to it on the spine is Japanese text reading "Kaze no Densetsu Xanadu" or something like "The Winds of Legend of Xanadu," "The Wind's Legend Xanadu," or maybe even "The Legendary Winds of Xanadu."

Maybe SamIAm can tell me what's actually going on there?

...seriously though, this is looking great.


Not that I can add anything to this discussion, but this might be interesting. :)


My commentary on PCE advertisement:

Quote
POETIC & PROPHETIC, IF CLICHÉD: The text, in English, below the portrait of characters reads, "The wind of fate has blown, that same wind from a thousand years ago, and it has raised the veil of mystery."
Free of any grammatical errors, this prose adds an extra touch of elegance to the overall presentation. Yes, elegant—despite how hackneyed "the wind of fate" and the rest of it sounds, especially for an ARPG/RPG. When the overall presentation of an advertisement is exquisite, down to the finest details, I can forgive a cliché, or two. Or three.


You can see the ad here:

http://archives.tg-16.com/Gekkan_PC_Engine_1994_01.htm

There are other ads available, too, for the curious.

:)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 03:42:11 PM by esteban »
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seieienbu

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #219 on: May 11, 2016, 04:13:41 PM »
Thanks for the lesson gentlemen.  May the wind of fate aid this translation!
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spenoza

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #220 on: May 12, 2016, 09:30:31 AM »
の is possessive, but it's flexible in ways you wouldn't think based on English grammar.
サムのバカ!means Sam, you're an idiot!  私の行った所 is "The place I went to" (My went-there place).

In the former case, though, it could be argued that the more literal "Sam's idiocy" also technically works, and that "Sam, you're an idiot!" is simply a typical case of recognizing that "Sam's idiocy" is not something someone would ever say in English.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #221 on: May 12, 2016, 12:25:22 PM »
In the former case, though, it could be argued that the more literal "Sam's idiocy" also technically works, and that "Sam, you're an idiot!" is simply a typical case of recognizing that "Sam's idiocy" is not something someone would ever say in English.

Deep analysis of の when used in this sort of grammatical capacity (as a so-called particle) will always take you back to the possessive. The main point is, you shouldn't think of it purely in terms of equaling an apostrophy-s even if that does seem like the simplest approach, because eventually you will be doing more complicated mental gymnastics to understand it that way, not to mention to translate it.

Also, I think "Sam's idiocy!" is maybe going down the wrong path for that particular pattern. The noun following の pretty much always feels concrete ("idiot") not conceptual ("idiocy"). For example, how else could it be the subject of the sentence "Sam the idiot/That idiot Sam forgot his umbrella." (サムのバカが傘を忘れた。)? Saying that my idiocy forgot the umbrella doesn't really work, does it? The person saying it certainly isn't talking about my idiocy, per se. He's talking about me.

As another example, to pick on a childhood friend of mine, ピーターのやつ or ピーターのやろう means "That guy Peter" or even "That bastard Peter". Again, it's quite the contortion to put it into "Peter's bastardliness", right? Especially if it's going to be the subject of a sentence, right?

One way to think about this might be that it's adding a degree of clarity to the statements あのバカ or あのやろう - that idiot and that guy, respectively.

As a final example of の's flexibility, if you put the name on the end, you can do things like 料理人のマーク (Mark the chef) or 大工のジャック (Jack the carpenter), too.

In the end, while you can force yourself to interpret these through apostrophe-s, I don't know why you would want to. It's best to understand what "possessive" means in general, then take の as its own thing, IMHO.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:27:01 PM by SamIAm »

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #222 on: May 12, 2016, 12:45:19 PM »
I always found the game's title a bit funny.  It is clearly titled "The Legend of Xanadu" in English.

Well ... you see ... err ... Houston, we've got a problem!



There's a 224-pixel width limit on the logo in Xanadu 1.

We're going to need Black Tiger to ride to the rescue if we want to fit "The" in as well!  #-o

Bonknuts

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #223 on: May 12, 2016, 01:04:02 PM »
Do you guys have an official announcement page yet?

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #224 on: May 12, 2016, 01:21:25 PM »
Do you guys have an official announcement page yet?

I don't think that we've even talked about it!

I certainly don't want to run a website.