Xanadu II Translation Development Blog

[Black Tiger]

Although it was already impossible to pull of that English logo in the amount of space there is (it literally fills the width of the screen), while remaining extremely faithful to the style of the original, the way I looked at it when designing it is that this is not the official golden cursive title which already exists within the game. This logo is supposed to be different and LEGEND OF XANADU balances out the differences between the two and visually, the OF is already enough of a compromise to the style of the logo it's actually replacing. Just the same, the OF instills the same sense of symmetry you get from the Kanji/Katakana split of the original. But any use of THE would break the overall style in general.

It's supposed to be simpler and bolder, because of its specific uses in these games. Plus, this kind of variation is common in localizations of the time (It's simply ZELDA II for just one game because it works better in-game). Trying to shoehorn in THE just for the sake of technicality is only going to further compromise the style of the original logo as well as the English version.

I think that if a majority of people care more about the technicality of one of the game's Japanese names, the best way to do it would be to just use the existing Kaze no Densetsu logo as-is and add a single-pixel-width for underneath which plainly says, KAZE NO DENSETSU or THE LEGEND OF XANADU, or if most people are dying for a proper translation, then WINDY LEGEND or whichever is the most popular interpretation.

[ccovell]

As another example, to pick on a childhood friend of mine, ピーターのやつ or ピーターのやろう means "That guy Peter" or even "That bastard Peter". Again, it's quite the contortion to put it into "Peter's bastardliness", right? Especially if it's going to be the subject of a sentence, right?

This is right.  Also more examples in Japanese: "Hitsuji no Shaun" and "Kuma no Pooh-san" is how Shaun the Sheep and Pooh-bear (Winnie the Pooh) are written.  So, the person/animal's name can be on the left or right side of the の and it seems to make no difference, really.  It's like "の" is used just as the BE verb is in English.  I bring up these examples everytime my students think の is a simple possessive when put into English.

[Dicer]

I always found the game's title a bit funny.  It is clearly titled "The Legend of Xanadu" in English.

Well ... you see ... err ... Houston, we've got a problem!



There's a 224-pixel width limit on the logo in Xanadu 1.

We're going to need Black Tiger to ride to the rescue if we want to fit "The" in as well! 

Made the big font smaller and place the "the" over the top...if such a thing is doable

[spenoza]

Also, if you could fit Olivia Newton John in the background there that'd be swell.

[elmer]

Made the big font smaller and place the "the" over the top...if such a thing is doable

The English glyphs in Black Tiger's logo are 14-17 pixels wide ... so it might be possible to make them 1 or 2 pixels narrower without totally screwing up the look of the logo ... but I'm speaking as a "programmer" there, and not an "artist".

There are very good reasons that you don't see programmer-art in games anymore ... we're generally pretty bad at it (I know that I am).

The problem is also a question of "what on Earth should the logo say?".

I've spent months hearing the game referred to as Legend of Xanadu, and I thought that was its name.

I only just got real physical copies of the game from SamIAm last week.

And it was a couple of days ago that we've really started talking about this whole "Kaze no Densetsu" being "The Legend of the Wind", and how that actually ties into the game itself.

I can put any logo in the game, as long as it fits in the physical space ... 224x32 pixels for Xanadu 1 and 256x32 pixels for Xanadu 2.

Falcom are doing a lot of "clever" stuff with hardcoded sprites to display those logos and to fade them in and out with the sparkly effect.

Trying to change the size of the logos, or to display a subtitle, would be an absolute nightmare.

This logo is supposed to be different and LEGEND OF XANADU balances out the differences between the two and visually, the OF is already enough of a compromise to the style of the logo it's actually replacing. Just the same, the OF instills the same sense of symmetry you get from the Kanji/Katakana split of the original. But any use of THE would break the overall style in general.

And this is the classic problem ... how to make the logo actually look good artistically while conveying the information that needs to be conveyed.

I like the way the the logo is balanced now, and it really does show that symmetry that Black Tiger is talking about.

But the question is, now that I have a better idea of how Falcom actually named the game ... is it "right"?

If I'm understanding things ... "Xanadu" and "The Legend of Xanadu" are basically just saying the the game is a part of the Xanadu/Dragon Slayer series.

The game's individual title is "Kaze no Densetsu", i.e. "The Legend of the Wind", and according to SamIAm, that's the name that it is primarily known by to Japanese gamers.

I suspect that this issue will be a topic of discussion for a while. 

[SamIAm]

I've spent months hearing the game referred to as Legend of Xanadu, and I thought that was its name.

This is my bad, and I really am sorry. I should have caught this at an earlier stage.  :oops:

If I'm understanding things ... "Xanadu" and "The Legend of Xanadu" are basically just saying the the game is a part of the Xanadu/Dragon Slayer series.

That's probably the best way to interpret it. The word "Xanadu" does not appear in the game script once.

As a whole, the Xanadu/Dragon Slayer series is/are the most disjointed I've ever seen.

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/dragonslayer/dragonslayer.htm
http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/xanadu/xanadu.htm

So, the original Xanadu is the second game in the loosely-connected Dragon Slayer series, and every main entry in the Dragon Slayer series got its own loosely-connected spin-offs. The Legend of Xanadu on PCE is supposed to be connected to the original Xanadu and yet also be Dragon Slayer VIII somehow...and it also doesn't have any characters or locations in common with the other games; only the sword with the name "Dragon Slayer".

It's a mess.

The game's individual title is "Kaze no Densetsu", i.e. "The Legend of the Wind", and according to SamIAm, that's the name that it is primarily known by to Japanese gamers.

I suspect that this issue will be a topic of discussion for a while. 

There are lots of good reasons to go with "Legend of the Wind", and lots of good reasons not to.

First, I'm curious to see whether "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind" can be made to fit in that space somehow, because if it can't, then that pretty much answers that.

[seieienbu]

Having bigger "Xanadu" then "Legend of the Wind" as a subtitle might work well in this case imo

[SamIAm]

I think so, too. Depending on palette limitations, there might be potential to having "Xanadu" be in a darker shade, then having "Legend of the Wind" partially overlapping it in a lighter shade. You could put one in cursive script and the other in a more ordinary font, too.

----------------------------

By the way, about project pages: it's very generous of folks to offer hosting. Right now, though, I think I would be spreading myself thin trying to get an attractive looking page launched and updated.

My plan is to do a second play-test-edit of both games, get the dub out of the way, and then ask for volunteers to test/offer feedback for both games. While they are doing that, I think the time would be ripe to start spreading the word a bit.

[LentFilms]

Just throwing my two cents in about the game's name: the English text on the box says "The Legend of Xanadu" and that is the title the game is known by for most English fans, so I think that would be the best name to use. But I also don't see a problem with just having it say "Legend of Xanadu" on the title screen.

As a side note, I don't think you really need to spread the word about the project while it is being tested. Once the patches are released, word will get around. A lot of websites even covered your guys' Zeroigar patch and I don't think most people outside of this forum even knew about the project as it was being made. So I think having a fancy project page or trying to "spread the word" before everything is done and out is unnecessary. But do whatever you want to do. 

Keep up the awesome work!

[SamIAm]

If it turns out that there's just no way to get "The Legend Of Xanadu" into one line without having the whole thing look like crap, then we can consider going back to just "Legend of Xanadu".

From a language perspective, there are only two really good candidates for the title: "The Legend of Xanadu", which is exactly what Falcom wrote on all the materials, or "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind", which in my judgement is the best translation of the Japanese title.

Reasons for going with "The Legend of Xanadu" include that it's a name that Falcom themselves gave it, that it's what most people are going to expect, and that it's very likely going to be the only one that we can cram into that space and still have it look good.

Meanwhile, reasons for going with "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind" include that it appears to be the primary title of the game (in Japan, nobody writes "The Legend of Xanadu" in katakana or romaji, ever), that "The Legend of Xanadu" could be nothing more than a touch of foreign-looking/sounding flair that Falcom stuck on the packaging, and that "Wind" is actually a pretty important thing in the first game. I mean, it's not the "Chrono" in Chrono Trigger, but it's definitely part of the story.

But "Legend of Xanadu" in-game when the printed materials all include a "The" on them? It reminds me of shoddy NES shovelware. You know, one of the primary things that has kept me going during this whole project is that it's a chance to try to do something as well as I can do it, and to do a better job than is usually done. I want this to be a Grade-A fan-translation, and for it to stand up next to any decent professional localization. Thus, if we're going to go with sub-optimal language for the title, there had better be a damned good reason for it.

Like I said, if the art-perspective is that only "Legend of Xanadu" is short enough to look good at all, then we can make the hard decision and go with it. However, if "The" can fit somehow, even if it takes some serious reworking, then I really strongly feel that that's what we need to have.

[Black Tiger]

If the size/palette restrictions can't be expanded and the current pixelart were to be used as a "compromise", the logo in TLoX could probably gain a tiny horizontal or vertical "THE".

The logo in TLoXII is already touching the sides of the screen and it took a miracle to make something half-decent looking. Something to keep in mind is that the logo in TLoXII is also used on the title screen. So even if the sprite block can be expanded in size and variation in English, retaining the art style of the original or even just in a comparable sized font, will require a 2-row title.

The other thing to remember, is that in the actual existing game, Falcom themselves thought that compromising their official title was worth it to achieve the composition and artwork they preferred for the title screen.





This shows that Falcom didn't think that a two row title sitting higher or any other variation on the screen was worth the trade-off.


But if the size, palette and positioning can be changed, an extra row can just be positioned above the current position of the single-row logo. Or the 2-row logo can be lowered a bit for composition. Or it can be moved further up and the full title can be used, since the upper part of the background that Falcom decided wasn't worth covering is getting covered anyway.







There is literally only one pixel of unused space at the top and bottom of the TLoXII logo, so if the English logo is scrapped and subtitles are used and the size/palette cannot be expanded, this is how it would work (current English logo for comparison):







If the sprite size/palette/positioning can be altered, I could also do all kinds of different things with the menu and copyright text as well. I could also add more shading to the outline of the title logo or even have a gradient cutting through the inner font. I was shooting for extreme authenticity when pulling out all the stops for the current logo and I know that no one will compare the original to mine pixel-by-pixel to appreciate how faithful it is. But if we're going in a radical new direction, pretty much anything could be done, like the golden cursive logo from the cover. Depends on how far you want to tinker with things. I know it's already been a lot of work.

[elmer]

Oh,c**p! Now we've got a problem with the current Xanadu 2 logo.

This is the Japanese logo in the Xanadu 2 Opening Visual ...



The highlight is a high-priority sprite that moves behind a background layer (which has a cutout for the logo), and above the logo sprites.

Apart from all the messing around that that's going to mean for mean for me when converting the new English logo into cutouts, it also means that the English logo can only be a maximum of 240 pixels wide in order to avoid sprite-dropout and cutoff during the visual sequence.

The current logo is 244 pixels wide ... and that's just not going to work.

But if the size, palette and positioning can be changed, an extra row can just be positioned above the current position of the single-row logo. Or the 2-row logo can be lowered a bit for composition. Or it can be moved further up and the full title can be used, since the upper part of the background that Falcom decided wasn't worth covering is getting covered anyway.

I may be able to find some unused colors in the palette that can be used ... but I can't change the overall size of the logo.

Falcom are doing way too much dynamic messing around with the sprites/backgrounds for that to work without rewriting the code for the entire intro sequence ... which just isn't practical.

There is literally only one pixel of unused space at the top and bottom of the TLoXII logo, so if the English logo is scrapped and subtitles are used and the size/palette cannot be expanded, this is how it would work:

If that kind of arrangement is the best alternative, then I could certainly live with it (preferably in some other color).

But I'd really love to see if we can keep the idea of what you've done, but just make the English letters a bit narrower ... if it can be done.

[SamIAm]

"The Last Of Dragon Slayer" is something I think we can say is not really part of the title. It doesn't appear once in either the manual or in any of the game's articles or advertisements in PCE Fan magazine between the time it was announced and the time it was released and after. Yes, I have all of them, and yes, I just checked.

Also, that should probably be changed to something like "The Last Dragon Slayer" or "The Final Dragon Slayer". I think what they want to say is that this is going to be the final game in the Dragon Slayer series.

Two little side notes: first, the magazine refers to both games strictly as kaze no densetsu, with "The Legend of Xanadu" appearing only as the golden cursive graphic in advertisements. Second,  it's interesting to note that the oft-repeated tagline for Xanadu 2, which is even on the back of the case, is 伝説の風再び..., which means literally "The Legendary Wind Once More..." and is really something like "The Legendary Wind Returns/Rises Again".

Even though it may still be impossible, this tilts me a little further toward preferring "Xanadu - Legend of the Wind".

Anyway...

There is literally only one pixel of unused space at the top and bottom of the TLoXII logo, so if the English logo is scrapped and subtitles are used and the size/palette cannot be expanded, this is how it would work:

I could definitely live with this. Maybe it's because the Japanese is easy on my eyes anyway, but this looks like a very tasteful compromise.

Thanks for taking the time to look into this, Black Tiger. I'm very grateful for your help, and again, I'm sorry that I didn't pick up on this issue earlier.   :oops:

[seieienbu]

There is literally only one pixel of unused space at the top and bottom of the TLoXII logo, so if the English logo is scrapped and subtitles are used and the size/palette cannot be expanded, this is how it would work:

I think this is a pretty classy looking logo.  If you can't make it work well from a technical and aesthetic standpoint at the same time, I'd rather you went with something like this.

[Vimtoman]

Thumbs up from me.

Maybe lose the II on the English text.