Xanadu II Translation Development Blog

[SamIAm]

If we call the sword "the Dragon Slayer" and the tagline "The Last/Final Dragon Slayer", everything works out just fine IMHO. After all, the series takes place in different worlds, and there is more than one incarnation of the sword itself.

More later.

[dshadoff]

If the sword itself isn't even in every game, if only in the story, then it makes all the less sense for THE LAST OF DRAGON SLAYER to be talking about the sword over the series.

Based on other things which have been said, who's to say that they didn't MEAN "The End of DragonSlayer", or "Dragonslayer's demise" or "Dragonslayer's Last Stand" ?

-Dave

[Vimtoman]

What about
Legends of the wind
A Dragonslayer saga

[SamIAm]

- There are eight games in the original Dragon Slayer series, some of which have their own sub-series games. None of these main eight take place in the same world or have any of the same characters, including gods. Unless there is a magic black-hole teleporting it between each game, Areios is not using the sword from 1984's Dragon Slayer. It's more like there are different incarnations of it.

- Deleting the space between Dragon and Slayer is one thing, but I really don't think dropping "the" from before it is a good idea. Faxanadu, Legacy of the Wizard, and the fan translation of Xanadu Next alike all referred to the Dragon Slayer with an article, and I think quasi-medieval Tolkien-style sword naming is a mismatch for the Kaze no Densetsu games in terms of thematic tone, character speaking style, and pure sound for this particular weapon. Therefore, THE LAST OF DRAGONSLAYER as-is does not work.

The rest is complicated, and I'll admit that I don't have a comfortable position on the whole thing, but this is one point I'm going to be fairly adamant about.

- Should there be a space between Dragon and Slayer? I honestly don't know. I see the fan translation of Xanadu Next made them one word. I need to investigate more. I don't see confusion over whether it's a sword or a human as a real problem either way, though. The first time the player sees the word Dragon Slayer is going to be in context during the opening cutscenes. I'm more interested in precedent set by Falcom themselves or official localizations.

- If we do put a space in the sword's name, I think THE LAST DRAGON SLAYER pays adequate lip service to the fact that we aren't going to see any more Dragon Slayer swords. I also think that since it allows for a double meaning (the series and the sword), it makes for a better "click" at the end. Instead of us saying at the beginning "This is the last time you're going to see the sword. (later) See? There it goes." it's more like we make the player say at the end "Oh, how nice. The series was named after the sword, and look, the sword itself is going away. I guess it really was the last Dragon Slayer."

- If we make the sword's name Dragonslayer, I have pretty mixed feelings about telling players so clearly that the sword is going away right from the beginning. I don't think it was that clear for Japanese players. As I said before, this "sword's last outing" concept doesn't seem to appear anywhere in Japanese. Show me that it does, and you'll sway me right away.

- I know Dave was just giving examples, but if we do say that this is the last we'll see of the Dragon Slayer, the tone has to be more like "The Last Adventure of the Dragon Slayer". Nothing negative like "last stand" or "demise". The game ending and the sword discarding all happen on a very positive and optimistic note.

LAST OF THE DRAGONSLAYER is not bad, with or without the space. I still think THE LAST DRAGON SLAYER is better if we put a space between the words, though.

[dshadoff]

I'm more interested in precedent set by Falcom themselves or official localizations.

Falcom does not have a stellar track record on consistency when it comes to translated names.

- If we do put a space in the sword's name, I think THE LAST DRAGON SLAYER pays adequate lip service to the fact that we aren't going to see any more Dragon Slayer swords.

Interesting thought; I hadn't considered that.

Instead of us saying at the beginning "This is the last time you're going to see the sword. (later) See? There it goes." it's more like we make the player say at the end "Oh, how nice. The series was named after the sword, and look, the sword itself is going away. I guess it really was the last Dragon Slayer."

- If we make the sword's name Dragonslayer, I have pretty mixed feelings about telling players so clearly that the sword is going away right from the beginning. I don't think it was that clear for Japanese players. As I said before, this "sword's last outing" concept doesn't seem to appear anywhere in Japanese. Show me that it does, and you'll sway me right away.

- I know Dave was just giving examples, but if we do say that this is the last we'll see of the Dragon Slayer, the tone has to be more like "The Last Adventure of the Dragon Slayer". Nothing negative like "last stand" or "demise". The game ending and the sword discarding all happen on a very positive and optimistic note.

I was trying to do a very Western thing with my examples - I wasn't trying to make it negative, but rather a subtitle which may make the reader sit up and take notice, thinking "WHAT ?  How can that be ?!?!"   (and be drawn into the game to find out the answer to their own rhetorical question).

-Dave

[Bonknuts]

I never did consider "canon" Falcom's strong point. And if they ever do remake any of the Xanadu series, like they have the Ys series, they'll definitely change and add things.

 This detail about Dragon Slayer thing seems so minute, that it's rather silly to really stress over this or give it that much importance. In the grand scheme of things, and playing through this translation, does it even matter?

[joobloo]

"The Last Dragon Slayer" sounds like we're talking about a person who slays dragons, as was mentioned above.  "The End of Dragon Slayer" sounds more like we're talking about the series, possibly a person, but then we find out it's a reference to the sword.  I like them both, but I feel the latter is closer to what was meant.  But they both work on multiple levels, which is cool.

[SamIAm]

I never did consider "canon" Falcom's strong point. And if they ever do remake any of the Xanadu series, like they have the Ys series, they'll definitely change and add things.

 This detail about Dragon Slayer thing seems so minute, that it's rather silly to really stress over this or give it that much importance. In the grand scheme of things, and playing through this translation, does it even matter?

I think it would be much less of an issue if it didn't affect how we're going to call the sword. In Xanadu 1 especially, that sword plays a major role in the story and is talked about very often.

"The Last Dragon Slayer" sounds like we're talking about a person who slays dragons, as was mentioned above.  "The End of Dragon Slayer" sounds more like we're talking about the series, possibly a person, but then we find out it's a reference to the sword.  I like them both, but I feel the latter is closer to what was meant.  But they both work on multiple levels, which is cool.

I like The End of Dragon Slayer better than The Last of, but we run into the same grammatical problem where strictly speaking, in order to be talking about the sword, it has to be The End of the Dragon Slayer.

You're right, The Last Dragon Slayer isn't perfect. However, I think it's the best option we have right now.


SPOILER ALERT


The main character of Xanadu 2 is also the main character of Xanadu 1. Although there is no dragon that is slain in Xanadu 2, there is in Xanadu 1. Technically, the main character of Xanadu 2 is...you know...the last dragon slayer.

At best, The Last Dragon Slayer as a tagline is triple layered and clever. At worst, it's an inelegant stretch. Either way, I'll take it for now.

One more thing: This tagline message isn't part of the title. It's not in the manual whatsoever, nor is it in any of the promotional materials or even on the main title screen; it literally doesn't appear anywhere but this one secondary screen.

Before this screen is an intro cutscene, and in that cutscene, we meet the Dragon Slayer sword. So really, it's not that confusing, and if we make the player ask himself what it's really talking about, that's actually not a bad thing.

[dshadoff]

One more thing: This tagline message isn't part of the title. It's not in the manual whatsoever, nor is it in any of the promotional materials or even on the main title screen; it literally doesn't appear anywhere but this one secondary screen.

...Or, based on the above, this tagline could be removed to avoid confusion (and all this angst).

-Dave

[elmer]

There are eight games in the original Dragon Slayer series, some of which have their own sub-series games. None of these main eight take place in the same world or have any of the same characters, including gods. Unless there is a magic black-hole teleporting it between each game, Areios is not using the sword from 1984's Dragon Slayer. It's more like there are different incarnations of it.

? ... ?? ... ... Really???     

This all just shows how little I really know about the history of these games after spending so much time working on these two.  :oops:

This detail about Dragon Slayer thing seems so minute, that it's rather silly to really stress over this or give it that much importance. In the grand scheme of things, and playing through this translation, does it even matter?

Hahaha ... I wouldn't totally disagree, we are taking this perhaps a bit too seriously ... but it's still fun to think about these things, and I'm enjoying the discussion!

You're right, The Last Dragon Slayer isn't perfect. However, I think it's the best option we have right now.

OK, this works for me.

It is in all-upper-case, so there's no distinction about that letters should be capitalized to worry about.

I'm happy enough to leave the space in there.

With all the new stuff that I've learned in the last couple of days, I'm also more-than-happy to trust your judgement and stick with "the Dragon Slayer" in the text in the way that you've been doing it.

It certainly hasn't ever seemed to look wrong or read wrong when I've been seeing the text in the message boxes.

**************

Now, there's just the whole logo issue left to obsess about! 

[SamIAm]

...Or, based on the above, this tagline could be removed to avoid confusion (and all this angst).

-Dave

Ha ha ha ha...Yes!

With Xanadu Next, the tagline isn't even true anymore!

I'd like to give keeping the tagline a shot so that we can feel good about being faithful to the source material, but if it's causing serious dysfunction, then I definitely consider cutting it an option.

That might ruffle some feathers, but one of the first rules in translation is that you can't please everybody.

[SamIAm]

There are eight games in the original Dragon Slayer series, some of which have their own sub-series games. None of these main eight take place in the same world or have any of the same characters, including gods. Unless there is a magic black-hole teleporting it between each game, Areios is not using the sword from 1984's Dragon Slayer. It's more like there are different incarnations of it.

? ... ?? ... ... Really???     

This all just shows how little I really know about the history of these games after spending so much time working on these two.  :oops:

The first two of the main eight, Dragon Slayer and Xanadu, had very little story to speak of. The main characters didn't even have names.

However, one of Falcom's own employees drew and released an official manga for Xanadu in 1987. The main character is called Feig, and he is a 21st century sci-fi soldier who warps (time travels?) into the world of Xanadu. Needless to say, this has zilch to do with our Legend of the Wind-Xanadu's story.

--------------

joobloo, just in case you don't know, we shorten The Legend of Xanadu to just Xanadu around here, but this is misleading. There is another game in the Dragon Slayer series called Xanadu. Here is a list of the eight main games, including the number of sub-series games for each one.

1. Dragon Slayer (1)
2. Xanadu (2)
3. Romancia (1)
4. Drasle Family / Legacy of the Wizard (1)
5. Sorcerian (5)
6. Dragon Slayer - Legend of Heroes (2)
7. Lord Monarch (2)
8. The Legend of Xanadu / Legend of the Wind (2)

As I have read, the decision to put "Xanadu" in #8's title was based on the fact that it would include both overhead and side-scrolling sections like its predecessor, and nothing else. Apparently, a couple of the music tracks are similar, too. I need to look into that.

Storywise, however, The Legend of Xanadu starts over completely.

[Vimtoman]

What about
The Legend of Xanadu
Dragon Slayer VIII

[SamIAm]

What about
The Legend of Xanadu
Dragon Slayer VIII

That is actually what Xanadu 1 is called in the credits. The thing is, that game doesn't have a tagline/message under the title graphic anywhere in it. It's just this one screen in Xanadu 2. Or is that what you meant?

Phase reminded me that the real tagline on the back of the case and in a lot of the advertisements is something like "The Legendary Wind Returns/Rises Again" (伝説の風再び), which would look fine other than maybe not being able to fit. There are a lot of things we could come up with that would work well enough in the role that THE LAST OF DRAGONSLAYER presently plays.

The thing is, I'd like to stick close to what the original says, and if that doesn't work, I'd say just cut it. I feel like I could look Falcom in the eye and tell them why I think THE LAST DRAGON SLAYER is close in spirit to what they had in the original and a smarter choice for native English speaking audiences. If need be, I could tell them why I thought it just had to go. But telling them that I felt entitled to put whatever I wanted in such a prominent place (well, sort of prominent) would be a very different thing.

There are times in story translation when you have to make up a small something on your own just to fill in a crack left by something untranslatable. This doesn't strike me as one of them, though.

Really, unless elmer finishes the games and tells me he objects, I think THE LAST DRAGON SLAYER works fine.

[Bonknuts]

What about Faxanadu (Fa(micom) Xanadu)?