Author Topic: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog  (Read 47320 times)

Black Tiger

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #600 on: July 20, 2017, 04:32:25 AM »
I've always wanted to try to fix the color in LoXII's overworld backgrounds, even though I appreciate the stylistic choice they made. The problem is that some of the funky colors are shared between radically different assets. So you could probably make small improvements within scenes here and there, but it will still be tricky striking the right balance.

Purples, greens and browns actually work well together when done right.

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esteban

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #601 on: July 20, 2017, 04:42:37 AM »
TRICKY KICK: Since palettes are shared.... it seems like an awfully complex puzzle to make things work in all the different scenes/screens across the entire game.



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elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #602 on: July 20, 2017, 06:49:11 AM »
Wow, offhand, I don't recall ever knowing there was a map, though, it's been, maybe 10 years or so since I beat LoX2?

Hahaha ... yep, that Inventory screen is pretty hidden. I only found out about it when I accidentally pressed "right" when the cursor was at the edge of one of the upper boxes.

That's pretty poor UI design on Falcom's part, and there really should be an arrow icon on the border of the box.

You never really need to look at the Inventory, ever, in the game itself, so it's easy to just miss it.

The only thing that you can actually do on that screen is to look at a map, and the maps are a just a help, and aren't really needed in order to play the game.


Ship it!

Don't I wish!!!  #-o

We're now rapidly approaching one year since I finished playing through both of the LoX games in English.

Now ... that time has given me the opportunity to do a whole bunch of little cleanups and polishing ... and we really did need to do the dub for these games, because it's the only way that players can see the whole story, but it's been a bit frustrating to be sitting on all of this for so long.


It's another reason why I want to do Anearth next.

We can get it all finished and done and released in a decent time frame ... and then afterwards someone can come along and organize a dub, if they wish to do so. There isn't even any lip-synching in that game that would need to be fixed.

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #603 on: July 20, 2017, 07:04:55 AM »
I've always wanted to try to fix the color in LoXII's overworld backgrounds, even though I appreciate the stylistic choice they made. The problem is that some of the funky colors are shared between radically different assets. So you could probably make small improvements within scenes here and there, but it will still be tricky striking the right balance.

I understand where you're coming from, and that it's a personal preference for each player, but I actually like Falcom's color choices in the LoX2 worlds themselves!

They've gone for a low-contrast and subtle look to everything that seems to hint at the directions that artists would begin to take in the 32-bit era (IMHO).

It's a distinct change from the classic high-contrast colorful-and-saturated 16-bit look of LoX1 (and Anearth).

Honestly, I think that it's wonderful what they did, and I personally prefer it to Anearth's graphics on the PCE (now that I've been able to use that game's Debug Mode to see all of the levels).

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #604 on: July 20, 2017, 07:47:32 AM »
Time to play devil's advocate.

OK!  :lol:  :twisted:


Quote
Some of the coloring principles you see in the original maps that are on the chopping block now are applied elsewhere in the game and might be worth saving.

For example, the pink/purple shading you see on the dark lines. It turns out that if you look around, you can find many examples throughout the game of purple being used to shade brown.

Absolutely. With the PCE's limited 512-color range, those shading colors are often the best choice.

And Falcom used them masterfully in the game itself, IMHO.

I certainly don't mind that pinkish shade being used on rocks and wood. You only have to go out into nature to see those reds in a lots of rocks and types of wood.

They make it look like a deliberate choice in their main graphics, and not just a limitation.


Quote
The original map again, just for reference.

Purple isn't the only shading color that's ever used with brown, don't get me wrong, but it's in there a lot.

Absolutely ... and where it works well as a stylistic choice, it's really great.

But, IMHO, it just doesn't work in the maps.

Take a look at what I've done to the actual colors that are used ...

  ORIGINAL                          MODIFIED
  R   G   B                         R   G   B
108  72  72 pink   (contour)       72  72  72 grey   (contour)
 72  72  72 grey   (contour)       72  72  36 brown  (contour)
 72  72  36 brown  (contour)       72  72   0 brown  (contour)

 72 108 108 blue   (river)         72 108 108 blue   (river)

 72 108 108 blue   (vegetation)    36 108  36 green  (vegetation)
 72 108  72 green  (vegetation)    72 108  36 green  (vegetation)
108 108  36 yellow (vegetation)   108 108  36 yellow (vegetation)



That's an absolutely minimal change to those contour lines.

I've just taken Falcom's colors, and I've moved them one partial-step down in brightness to create a little more contrast, and remove the pink chroma-shift from what is supposed to be a hand-drawn map, and where it looks inappropriate.

Two of the 3 colors are identical ... just shifted onto other parts of the shaded line.

You couldn't make a smaller change, and yet it makes a distinctly visible improvement to the map.

The blue river color hasn't changed at all, but it has been removed from the vegetation, and replaced with a  green.


Now ... looking at those green values side-by-side, yep I went a bit too far with those. There is now an extra step down in the shades which gives a bit too much contrast and saturation in the vegetation that doesn't quite fit with Falcom's faded-out look.


So, it's been well worth this exercise in justification, and I've changed the vegetation to now use just one new color, and to make the green more subtle.

It gives the same impression, but it definitely does fit in better with Falcom's look.

  ORIGINAL                          MODIFIED                          BETTER
  R   G   B                         R   G   B
 72 108 108 blue   (vegetation)    36 108  36 green  (vegetation)    72 108  36 green
 72 108  72 green  (vegetation)    72 108  36 green  (vegetation)    72 108  72 green
108 108  36 yellow (vegetation)   108 108  36 yellow (vegetation)   108 108  36 yellow


Quote
In the case of the maps, changing this purple to grey, along with changing the blue vegetation to green and upping the contrast a little, probably isn't going to cause a disruption in the visual style. It could be that it would fool everyone. If it helps things look not-stupid on an LCD, then cool, we can go for it.

However, I think we really need a CRT test to say for sure.

It will definitely help people with an LCD, and it's a minimal change.

I have no doubt at all that you'll find that it looks fine on a CRT.  :wink:

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #605 on: July 21, 2017, 08:11:06 PM »
Not trying to derail a thread here, but, with me been listening to Dragon Slayer: Legend of Heroes in my care lately, it's made me think of 2 things.  One, I wish Falcom would make a (2D) remake of LoH 1&2 for consoles, as I just plain loved the first game! One of my top games in all creation!  Two, have you ever looked at the code for the LOH 2?  It'd be fantastic to have it translated, & quite frankly, as far as dubbing goes, would be stupidly easy to dub any returning char's to sound like the originals from the first game! :D  Either way, love the first game, I assume I'll love the second!

Mathius

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #606 on: July 22, 2017, 12:27:17 PM »
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I have to give you guys extra love and respect. As the fans of these games that you obviously are you could've just sat in the background and waited for someone else to translate/dub these games so you could've enjoyed the experience as if they were a new release (like the rest of us get to do). It really is a sacrifice on your parts.

Thank you. Truly and from the heart.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2017, 02:19:43 PM by Mathius »
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elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #607 on: July 23, 2017, 11:25:42 AM »
Two, have you ever looked at the code for the LOH 2?  It'd be fantastic to have it translated, & quite frankly, as far as dubbing goes, would be stupidly easy to dub any returning char's to sound like the originals from the first game!

Nope, not in any serious way.

I just took a quick look at the English version of Dragon Slayer LOH1, and (from the CD) it looks like they've got a mix of sting tables and LZSS-compressed script strings.

It looks like the script strings contain some simple formatting code, but it's not a full script language.

So ... probably pretty much what Dave Shadoff was talking about in Ys IV and ED.

And it looks like the string/script blocks occur at the end of decompressed chunks, and that there may be free space.

I can't imagine LOH2 being much different. Sequels are usually based on the same engine as the 1st game, but with some improvements.


But ... I don't think that I'll be looking at it any further.

Translations involve an enormous amount of detailed and often boring work, and I just don't have any great personal interest in the game.

You need to hope that someone who really adores the game will come along ... or learn how to hack games yourself.

It doesn't look like NEC-US/TTi really did anything too complicated or impressive with the UI work on LOH1, so really all that you'd need to do is to do the same kind of string-swap that they did, and you should be fine.

You wouldn't want to do anything more than that, or it would stand out too much from the first game.


As the fans of these games that you obviously are you could've just sat in the background and waited for someone else to translate/dub these games so you could've enjoyed the experience as if they were a new release (like the rest of us get to do).

Thanks ... but remember, I'd never played either LoX game before working on the translations.

I did it so that I could get to see what all of the fuss was about!  :wink:

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #608 on: July 23, 2017, 06:09:44 PM »
Ah, twas' just curious.  I have no time or brain power for coding/hacking, so, I shall await the random possibility of someone tackling it someday.  I'd really like all the Falcom TGCD games in english ....besides a multitude of other RPG's, like Anearth & the Cosmic Fantasy's. The 2 LoX games are at the top o' me list, so what you're doing already makes me do a happy dance, you may continue! :)

Mathius

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #609 on: July 23, 2017, 06:53:19 PM »
What I mean is we get to experience the final product of all your team's labor: the improvements, voice acting, etc. I'm really very thankful.  :)
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #610 on: July 24, 2017, 06:58:11 PM »
As am I, if I've never said it before, thank you Elmer & Sam!

IvanBeavkov

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #611 on: August 01, 2017, 11:49:27 PM »
Falcom just posted this old artwork from Xanadu on twitter.

Old illustration (original size) 1994, like legendary Xanadu PC engine SUPER CD-ROM2
(@nihonfalcom) August 2, 2017


Vimtoman

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #612 on: August 02, 2017, 04:01:18 AM »
Maybe they are doing an English conversion :) or anticipating this release......
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 04:03:18 AM by Vimtoman »

elmer

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #613 on: August 02, 2017, 08:02:32 AM »
Falcom just posted this old artwork from Xanadu on twitter.

As NightWolve kindly pointed out at the time, they posted it back in March as well ...

http://mobile.twitter.com/nihonfalcom/status/846260726649929728

They must really like that picture ... I know that I certainly do! :D

I like the comment from the person that saw that picture BITD and thought the game was about the girl in the middle, Sophia (which, in a way, it kinda is).


Maybe they are doing an English conversion :) or anticipating this release......

 :wink:

deubeul

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Re: Xanadu II Translation Development Blog
« Reply #614 on: August 02, 2017, 10:14:22 PM »


Maybe they are doing an English conversion :) or anticipating this release......
:wink:


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