Saber Rider and the Star Sheriffs

[elmer]

Also, you severely misunderstand what caused me to lash out.  You didn't actually take a dig at me.  Nothing you said offended *me* directly.  Your attitude and statements about Simon in comparison to other things is what set me off.  None of that really has much to do with me.

Yep, we been over this numerous times before ... you and I talk differently, and have different ways of expressing humor. We're decades apart in time, and a continent apart in our formative years.

I don't exactly love your constant personal insults, potty mouth, and fascination with Japanese schoolgirls and rape.

We're different. Deal with it.

You've done good things for the community, and I hope that my time and work here are also seen as  providing some benefit by most folks here, even despite my love of long-winded posts, and occasional boring trips down memory-lane.

Again, you didn't take a dig at me.  You didn't make fun of my work or abilities.  You used a little bias to talk about Simon as the OK party while throwing someone else under the bus.  Maybe your actual tone and intent was not what I read.  Just like maybe you're reading my tone different than I intend.  f*ck if I know.   None of this really changes the uncool nature of throwing people under the bus with little to go off of.

Errr ... in that video, Simon called the TV show "rubbish", which is a perfectly-valid personal-opinion, even if you don't agree with it, and he called Chris's CV "smoke-and-mirrors", which it may or may not be, but it still says nothing about his ability to actually get the job done.

I don't see any bus-riding going on there.

Perhaps there were a lot of personal-insults and attacks on Chris's professionalism in other materials that I haven't seen or heard.

Both you and Chris have certainly thrown around enough of those at Simon that I have seen, both here and on the website.

In my position of ignorance, that makes it look like it's you guys that are riding the bus.

You mean like your old pal Simon that you built up a bit and talked about like some comical, great character while stepping on others, out of ignorance?  Seems like he tripped while walking the walk. 

So what is it.  do you respect the guy, or what?  He doesn't seem to fit your criteria for respect, yet your tales and excitement about him say otherwise.

If you actually read what I wrote, I don't believe that I built him up, at all.

He wasn't a "pal" ... we didn't particularly like each other. He was the same vocal ass back then that he still is today. I was certainly a bit of an ass too, back then. Some would say that I still am.

But I saw him do good work, and I respect his ability to be able to do so. That doesn't mean that he still does so ... but it does mean that I'm more likely to give him the benefit-of-the-doubt vs someone with Chris's nebulous background, and crowdfunding history.

I just thought that his story was amusingly-told ... which it was (to me). I would like to note that he managed to say it without any of the personal insults or name-calling that both you and Chris have been doing.

From the outside, I see a project that is off-the rails and possibly burning money, that's fired the 2 lead members of the development staff, is having public he-said-she-said spats, and has had what seems to be lackluster progress over the time period.

It looks like it *might* be coming around now, but so far, at a time when the budget should be running out, and the product delivered, there's not one heck of a lot to show.

So, that raises questions, like WTF is really going on???

I would certainly like to know if Simon really f*cked up and didn't get the work done.

But I just don't trust one-sided stories.

By your own definition, this person is/was not operating as a professional, outside of the acting like a douchebag part, since they delivered garbage while squandering pay.

That could be certainly be what happened ... in which case I'd give Simon sh*t over it if I ever saw him again (unlikely). I'm not discounting it ... but neither am I saying that I accept it, yet.

Unless there is more information out there that I haven't seen, or other witness account of the events, this still looks like a he-said-she-said situation.

Sure, we can all agree that Simon is an mouthy-ass, but I haven't seen proof (yet) that he took money for crappy or non-existent work.

And even if Simon were the Anti-Christ, and did absolutely nothing (in which case he would deserve all this sh*tstorm and more) ... he was fired back in February/March of last year according to what I can make out from the appearance of the work from the "new" sprite artist that's shown on the Saber Rider Facebook page.

That's 10 months ago.

The sprites that you're seeing in the Dreamcast demo look like they were the ones posted on Facebook between March and May 2016 (and the demo uses only a small set of them).

The backgrounds look like they're the same ones that were shown back then, too.

The Character Select screen was shown in July.

I'm not really seeing much, or possibly any (I could be wrong), art in the yesterday's demo video, or on Facebook that seems to have been produced after July/August.

What's been going on?

Even though Chris Strauß was ill in August/September ... does that mean that the entire project stopped during that time?

Did it stop burning-cash during that time?

I'm sorry if you don't like these questions, and since I didn't participate in the KickStarter, then perhaps I have no right to know the answers ... but they're still valid questions and concerns.

You really don't seem to get what the issue is that I'm concerned about.

It's not whether one artist whose talent you don't like, and whose attitude you don't like, and who may possibly have run off with 3 or 4 months of whatever-they-were-paying-him money, over 10 months ago.

It's about whether the project is ever going to see the light of day, or if the "Design/Project Coordinator" is looking likely to burn through a 2nd round of crowdfunding with little to show for it.

Which, by-the-way, would leave you unpaid, and in the the position to be unable to complete a PCE version of the Saber Rider license that you came here and asked people to support the KickStarter for.

The project isn't doing bad.  It's actually doing fine, especially compared to how other KSs have gone.

I hope so.

Does that mean your excitement and "looking forward to it" remarks towards the project owner are sort of just BS?

You seem to think that I might have some petty vendetta against the project just because they fired someone that I haven't worked with in nearly 30 years. That's bollocks!

Nope, I want to see it get finished, and to a decent quality, both so that it doesn't end up as another failed-KickStarter, and so that you get to do your PCE version.

If that happens, then people here won't have wasted their money, and the PCE may get a tiny bump-up in its place on people's radar for future projects.

So that's another unfortunate KS side effect:  You pay an idiot and they f*ck off with your money.

That is definitely the concern.

The big question that won't be resolved for a while, yet, is the precise number and distribution of those "idiots" in this particular project.

Yeah, I mean, we're not all just here to spew out PCE games for people, lol.   The fact that money is involved DOES change things to a point, though.

Yes, it does.

Thanks for the detailed info about what's going on from your end of the project and your future plans.

You may have forgotten ... but that was kinda the first question that I asked. 

[Arkhan]

Yep, we been over this numerous times before ... you and I talk differently, and have different ways of expressing humor. We're decades apart in time, and a continent apart in our formative years.

I don't exactly love your constant personal insults, potty mouth, and fascination with Japanese schoolgirls and rape.

Your "different talking" has nothing to do with the low level you seem to stoop to when you make ignorant remarks towards things in a way where you put down parties you aren't informed of, or talk about yourself. 

That seems to be your recurring theme.  Ignorant remarks meant to put down someone/something.  As we see earlier, and above when you claim I have a fascination with Japanese school girls and rape (seriously.  wtf?).  You wonder why we end up in these situations.  Sort your shit out before you open your mouth.   It's not that hard.

Also, I tend to only make personal insults when they are warranted because someone is being an idiot, or asking for it.   As for potty mouth?  Who f*cking cares.  The PCE has games like Download.  We cannot f*ck up for this.

I should also point out, there was a stretch of time where Tom (bonknuts) would basically say things we were doing was stupid/wrong/absurd/etc.  it was very sophomoric, and very annoying.   It resulted in alot of arguing, some of which has created lasting  punchlines in other dev circles that caught wind of it.  That stopped, especially since the proof is in the pudding.    You seem to be keen on restarting those kinds of fires through ignorant/bullshit remarks about people and things.   

Errr ... in that video, Simon called the TV show "rubbish", which is a perfectly-valid personal-opinion, even if you don't agree with it, and he called Chris's CV "smoke-and-mirrors", which it may or may not be, but it still says nothing about his ability to actually get the job done.

I don't see any bus-riding going on there.

Perhaps there were a lot of personal-insults and attacks on Chris's professionalism in other materials that I haven't seen or heard.

Both you and Chris have certainly thrown around enough of those at Simon that I have seen, both here and on the website.

In my position of ignorance, that makes it look like it's you guys that are riding the bus.

I said you "threw someone under the bus".  I don't know what "bus riding" you're on about.  However, yes, you were in an ignorant position and inadvertantly chose to side with your old war buddy and make stupid, one sided remarks. 

I was simply responding to the moronic nonsense the dude spouted off in the video.  *shrug*.  Last time I checked, calling out someone for being a dick is an OK event. 

What proof do you need that he took the money and f*cked off?  He produced shit art, got money, and got fired.  There's your proof.  Pretty cut and dry, really.

He wasn't a "pal" ... we didn't particularly like each other. He was the same vocal ass back then that he still is today. I was certainly a bit of an ass too, back then. Some would say that I still am.

Then, maybe you should refrain from basically reminscing about the good old days in such a way that it makes it look like you hand your hands in each others pants while shitting all over something you know little about?  Seems fair.   Get the details before you chime in. 

But I just don't trust one-sided stories.

Except...you trusted them enough to giggle and throw someone else under the bus without a full story on the matter.   So, you contributed to a one sided shit-talk session, while saying you don't like one sided stories.  *thumbs up* ?

It's not whether one artist whose talent you don't like, and whose attitude you don't like, and who may possibly have run off with 3 or 4 months of whatever-they-were-paying-him money, over 10 months ago.

It's about whether the project is ever going to see the light of day, or if the "Design/Project Coordinator" is looking likely to burn through a 2nd round of crowdfunding with little to show for it.

Which, by-the-way, would leave you unpaid, and in the the position to be unable to complete a PCE version of the Saber Rider license that you came here and asked people to support the KickStarter for.

I didn't come here and ask people to support anything.   There was already a thread for that, not started by me.  I made *this* thread to talk about the game once it got started.  I don't have any actual involvement with the KS.  We were added when the thing was almost done.

I was asked about it while I was at an airport, and it was funded by the time I got back home.  I did nothing but say "OK", and have been awaiting details/etc. for our portion, while planning how/what to do.   

I'm a patient person, especially since Chris, the dude in charge, is a friendly dude.  I'm not about to be that guy that goes and bitches at someone for having medical problems, and having hired help that turned out to be douchemissiles.

You seem to think that I might have some petty vendetta against the project just because they fired someone that I haven't worked with in nearly 30 years. That's bollocks!

I don't think that at all.  I just don't see wtf you honestly care for since you don't like the content.  I don't know what you like, honestly.

You come into the NEC/PCE scene and do all this dev-oriented stuff which is cool, minus the instigating because you think it's funny... but I don't know what you like.   You refer to PCE as "the old gal" because the 30th is coming... but, as far as I know, you just found out about the thing like last week, and I don't know what you like, or play.  This is mostly because I don't see you doing much talking anywhere except the dev forum. 

Do you actually play PCE games?  I mean, pardon my apprehension, but it's really difficult to wrap my head around people who try to demonstrate the same love/loyalty for a thing that they barely have much time with as someone who's been around it for 20+ years.   

Sure, it's bordering on elitism, but I have to ask, because I am actually curious.   Sometimes it seems like you acquired interest only recently, and don't really actually play games.  It makes it hard for me to take fanboyism demonstrations from you very seriously.

[exodus]

man, I'll play this!

[nodtveidt]

It's actually kind of depressing that in a scene this small, we still somehow manage to get hostility between accomplished contributors to the scene...

[NightWolve]

Screw the game. I'm waiting for the Arkhan vs Elmer installment of Robot Chicken dev-celebrity death match!

[elmer]

It's actually kind of depressing that in a scene this small, we still somehow manage to get hostility between accomplished contributors to the scene...

Yep, it's pretty pointless. Time to try to wrap this up, and de-escalate the conflict.

Except...you trusted them enough to giggle and throw someone else under the bus without a full story on the matter.

Laughing at a humorously-told tale isn't the same (to me) as "throwing someone under the bus". It doesn't even imply that I necessarily agree with the guy.

I'm sorry if you think it does. It just means that I enjoy the art of a good rant/complaint/whinge/dig.

You may find that strange, but it's a stock part of British humor, and here in America, you've got someone like Lewis Black that has based his entire comedic career on it.

As I pointed out later on, I saw the hole in Simon's argument immediately.


Where I come from "throwing someone under the bus" means that someone involved in a project/business/event is publicly laying blame upon someone else for something that's gone wrong, whether it's their fault or not (see Mike Kennedy & the RetroVGS/Chameleon).

Perhaps we're seeing things differently, but I seriously don't see that I did that.

By that definition, I can't have, since I'm not involved in the project.

You are obviously using a different definition.


Perhaps you are thinking that I'm just (in my language) "being a dick, and stirring up trouble for the hell of it", like some folks seem to love to do for entertainment.

I may have arranged the material that I copied from the KickStarter Updates, and Comments, and the Website, in a way that you don't like, and you may dislike my doom-and-gloom worries about the progress on the project ... but seriously ... from my POV, you'd be hard-pressed to say that I was "being a dick, and stirring up trouble for the hell of it".

But perhaps that's how it came across. If so, I apologize.


Is it true that you really can't see any problems in the project, and that there's nothing about the current rate of progress that worries you about whether it will be finished before the money runs out???

OK, then, I'll shut up.

As pointed out, I have no direct stake in this, so if there are any of the unanswered  questions that anyone wishes to follow up on, that will be left up to those that put their hard-earned money down, trusting that they would see a product.

Is the acceptable to you?

You seem to be keen on restarting those kinds of fires through ignorant/bullshit remarks about people and things.

<sigh>

We are obviously never going to agree on our views of the world, or what are the acceptable ways to voice concern/criticism/warning of projects & development.

You're right, this has all gotten way overblown, especially if even nullity is turning up to enjoy the show. 

Nothing good will come of it if we just keep on disagreeing with each other, especially since it is totally irrelevant to what is my *real* concern anyway.

I just hope that things all work out in the end.

Just to finish on something positive ... Henk's artwork is absolutely excellent, BTW. 

Definitely a step above what I remember of Simon's. 

[ccovell]

[elmer]

Despite what you may think, from my POV, I generally prefer not to talk about myself.

But since I'm trying to make "peace", I'll bite and answer your questions.

You refer to PCE as "the old gal" because the 30th is coming... but, as far as I know, you just found out about the thing like last week, and I don't know what you like, or play.

You obviously missed this post ...

http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=20578.msg475244#msg475244

This is mostly because I don't see you doing much talking anywhere except the dev forum. 
Do you actually play PCE games?

That's because I'm interested in Development more than anything else. Creating stuff is fun.

Like most old-time developers, who did not grow up playing videogames, they're not my go-to form of entertainment.

Combine that with decades of working on them for 8-16hrs a day in a high-pressure environment, and what kind of after-work relaxation could I get playing the darned things???

The only time that I even think of playing a game these days is if it has a truly exceptional story, combined with a good game mechanic and immersive graphics.

For me, that's a very, very short list, especially since it has to be in English, so that I can understand that exceptional story.

So, to answer your question, generally "no".

Except that recently both Zeroigar and Legend of Xanadu 1 got added to the list.  Their storytelling really is that different and pleasurable to me.

I mean, pardon my apprehension, but it's really difficult to wrap my head around people who try to demonstrate the same love/loyalty for a thing that they barely have much time with as someone who's been around it for 20+ years.

See the receipt above ... 27 years, 11 days. And that was just the first one that I bought. Of many.

I was introduced to it a year earlier by a friend who bought a grey-import briefcase-setup.

Unfortunately, I don't have the receipt for the TurboDuo that I bought in approx 1992, after I moved to the States. Still got the machine though. I'm sure that it needs a re-cap by now.

You're not the only person that's been a "fan" for a while. 

[elmer]

Chris, I see your ...

... and raise with ...

[ccovell]

Chris, I see your ...

... and raise with ...

Drawing from the family's deep well, I see.

[elmer]

Drawing from the family's deep well, I see.

It seemed appropriate. 

[shubibiman]

 

[Arkhan]

well, that's good that you've not just found and become interested in the thing recently.   It was an honest curiosity due to mostly only seeing dev commentary and not much else.   I'd find it odd if someone just showed up to dick off with developer crap but has no real interests otherwise.   This might have come up in some form before.  I don't quite remember the outcome.

I personally find it hard to take someone seriously if they're *new new* and want to keep acting like they've been in it for awhile.   I don't mind enthusiasm, but it's like when you go to a Maiden concert and someone that just got into them last week shows up in a full getup acting like they've been into it for decades.  You want to wack them in the head with a shovel and tell them to calm their tits. 

This isn't the case, and you just don't seem to play games much anymore.   Fair enough.

My concern was *not* anything to do with questions concerning problems with the project, or what is going on with it.  There was no real disagreement there per se.  I don't care if people ask or have concerns.  I'll answer or comment on that shit all day if people ask.  Your initial post didn't really bother me.  The other ones that followed relating to Simon did.   and that one claiming I'm obsessed with rape.  Still wondering where that one came from.   Accusing someone of being into like rape or pedophilia is a bit low class, and makes me smirk when you also complain about my "potty mouth".   I'd say swearing a lot is much better than making really dumb remarks like that about the people around you. 

Anyway, it was directly related to the way in which you more or less just acted like Simon's side was the OK side either due to the past you have with him, or because it was funny, and you implied the worst about someone you don't know anything about.   Again, a bit low.  That shit isn't cool.    You should know who you're insulting and making implications about before you do it.

Simon's rant wasn't even funny.  The guy just seems like a giant tool who's skills are now outclassed by teenagers.    He's a useless commodity now.   He thinks too highly of himself, and can't deliver to match the hype.   I could go find a bunch of kids doing Ragnarok Online sprite mods and get better results than what he can do.   lol.

My question is, if you knew the guy was a total asshat, why wouldn't you be more apprehensive about him?  If someone's historically a dumbass, I'd assume their side leaves out their bullshit to try and make themselves look better.   So, I'd assume they're the one in the wrong.  Even if they made some kind of funny rant.  I would not use their comical nonsense or whatever to walk all over the other party that I know nothing about.  Again, this may not be what you meant to do, but it is what you did.




We at the PCE scene have had to wait long stretches of time for things to get done due to RealLife(TM). 

Rover's had an exceptionally bad time with real things delaying his stuff.  Money is/was involved there, and we don't tend to get up in arms about it.    The last time it did, I was one of the people standing back taking swings at people for getting lippy.

This won't be any different.   The large chunks of money for the project went to licensing, the prominent versions of the game, and paying idiots like Simon who then leave and become a waste.  I was not expecting a giant paycheck and "start immediately".   Watermelon ponied up a ton of money, so apparently the Dreamcast one is the one to care about. 

SIDE NOTE:  f*ck that group.  Watermelon team is the worst.

[esteban]

ASIDE: Damn, Arkhan, you had a perfect opportunity to show some restraint.

Then you went ahead and posted stuff that reeks of desperation.

"Are you a poseur? Or R U 2 legit 2 quit?"

...only to have that blow up in your face.




STATUS: A very entertaining thread. Does not disappoint. DOUBLE-PLUS GOOD.

[Arkhan]

Then you went ahead and posted stuff that reeks of desperation.

"Are you a poseur? Or R U 2 legit 2 quit?"

...only to have that blow up in your face.

...it wasn't reeking of desperation.  It was an honest curiosity. I even said this while asking.    I don't know how getting an answer to an inquiry is it "blowing up in my face".

You might have caught onto that if you did anything besides post stupid shit between all of the other posts while trying to be funny.

Usually, I laugh at this stuff.  But this time, f*ck off?