Author Topic: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread  (Read 18466 times)

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2016, 12:38:44 PM »
The numbering of the chapters is confusing because there's a prologue, and the second chapter you play is titled Chapter 1. Going by chapter-titles:

Chapter 11 is the final one.

Chapter 9 is the one with the desert maps.

Chapter 7 is the one with the worker guys. I found an online map for this one, and it helped immensely. Just glancing at it three or four times over the course of the whole thing made it waaaaay less confusing. Back when I first played Xanadu I a few years ago, this one was definitely driving me nuts.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 01:51:49 PM by SamIAm »

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #136 on: January 31, 2016, 01:56:23 PM »
Chapter 8 is now 100% translated and about 50% proofread.

Chapter 9 is preview-played as of this morning, so I can start on it next week. There will be some translation challenges in it, which I probably shouldn't spoil, but at least it's on the short side.

Chapter 3 is now fully test-played. That's a long one, but at least the next time I got through it, I'll have savestates to make the process faster.

Elmer's Xanadu II dump is finally in my hands, and it looks great. We're exploring options for merging the old translation as it exists in Esperknight's dump with this new one. Elmer has so far gotten the old lines to sit at the top of each file where they exist in the new dump (and there are 300+ files). If I have to copy/paste everything manually, that saves me a big couple of steps. Next is to see whether the old lines can be placed exactly where they're supposed to go throughout the new dump without too many errors.

Even if they can't, I'm satisfied. After the work I've been doing on Xanadu I, getting this together will be like making a Thanksgiving feast vs. microwaving a TV dinner.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 06:27:53 PM by SamIAm »

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #137 on: February 01, 2016, 09:34:01 PM »
Chapter 8 is now completely proofread.

-----------------

In addition to repetitious and/or mundane NPC dialogue, another common occurrence in JRPG scripts that invites a little liberal "punching up" when translating into English is characters that are defined by the way they speak above anything else.

A while ago in the thread, I posted this:
Quote
One thing Japanese does have that English doesn't which helps enliven short little RPG lines quite a lot is dialects and modes of speech that are easy to represent in written form. Without actually adding any whole extra words, it's easy to see if a character is a kooky old man, an air-headed teenage girl, a swashbuckling pirate, a "friend of Dorothy", a hardened boss, a polite servant, and more. In Japanese, it's all a matter of tweaking a few syllables.

I don't want to say who, but in Xanadu I and II, there are two characters in your party who stand out mostly because of their modes of speech. One sounds like a tightwad middle-manager, while the other sounds like a samurai straight out of a period-drama. The latter one is particularly concerning, but in both cases, you can't help but lose something when you translate their lines straight to English because the same modes don't quite exist there.

Here's a not-perfectly-analogous example of the kind of problem this can give rise to:

Remember that scene in Die Hard where John McClain finds Hans Gruber (RIP Alan Rickman) on the roof, and Hans starts speaking in clean American-accented English? I know Japanese people who have seen this movie countless times, and none of them were aware of the accent switch. Whoever translated Die Hard to Japanese must have just given up trying to work that in, because it's completely unrepresented. I've seen it once with Japanese subtitles, and they just let the scene play out as you'd expect it would if Hans weren't German to begin with.

There are things vaguely akin to that in Japanese scripts. Sometimes a character will say something like "It's cold outside"...not a particularly exciting line, but because it's in archaic samurai-ish talk, it's still kind of interesting. It gives the character some color. In the right situation, it mixes things up nicely in the overall scene and maybe adds a little depth.

If I really didn't want to go with "It's cold outside", there are two ways I could deal with that in translation. One is to use ye olde English and say "Mine ears doth freeze" or whatever. The other is to toss the original line out the window and write something completely different that tells the audience about the character in another way. For example, I could have them mention something that's important to them. The easy way out of that is to make a joke, which can be done to various degrees...Working Designs might have the samurai-ish character insist on taking a break to do some P90X.

I don't really like either of those options, though. Ye olde English is corny and distracting in most cases, and this Xanadu case, I believe, would be one of them. As for completely rewriting the line, even without any jokes...I just don't want to assume that much. It's not my script, and these are not my characters. To tell you more about them, I would have to invent things about them, and it doesn't seem right to twist them into different people just to spice things up a little.

It's kind of like how I feel about adding jokes where there were none before: on the rare occasion that I get an idea that's so subtle, so safe, and so good that you couldn't be sure it wasn't in the original game, well, I just might slip that into the script. I think that before I do my next play-test, I also ought to isolate both of those character's lines (again, especially the latter one) and see if I can't do a little minor stylizing or other punching-up in places. I really don't want them to be boring. But whatever I do, I want to keep it minimal. The result is that, more often then not, you're going to get the plain "It's cold outside" and that's it. I hope that's OK.

I know that "pro" translation outfits lean toward taking more liberties, and if I ever wanted to be "pro" myself, I'd probably need to get good at doing that. I once watched Kiki's Delivery Service with Japanese audio and English subtitles that were actually closed-captions of the English dub. It really surprised me how often the English dub added entirely new lines when nobody was speaking at all in the Japanese original, especially for Kiki's black cat.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2016, 11:54:16 PM by SamIAm »

IvanBeavkov

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #138 on: February 02, 2016, 01:35:50 AM »
Sam, fantastic work on this translation. I can't believe how fast you are going through the script.

Your dilemma about what to do with the middle-manager and samurai characters sounds tough. What if you played with the adjectives? That could add some flavor without going full ye olde English. For example your "It's cold outside" line could be changed to "It's frosty outside". It conveys the same meaning but most people wouldn't say it that way, so that character stands out a little more.

elmer

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #139 on: February 02, 2016, 12:26:10 PM »
What can I say Sam ... wow!  :shock:

I'm glad that it's you that has to pay attention to these things and not me!


spenoza

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #140 on: February 02, 2016, 02:21:21 PM »
As Ivan suggested, consider using word order or word choice to represent a similar or analogous character element. Again, you may have to be putting a few words in the character's mouth, but I think you can be forgiven if you give it the proper care.
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SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #141 on: February 02, 2016, 03:36:02 PM »
Sam, fantastic work on this translation. I can't believe how fast you are going through the script.

Your dilemma about what to do with the middle-manager and samurai characters sounds tough. What if you played with the adjectives? That could add some flavor without going full ye olde English. For example your "It's cold outside" line could be changed to "It's frosty outside". It conveys the same meaning but most people wouldn't say it that way, so that character stands out a little more.

Thanks! :D

"Frosty" is a nice alternative to "cold", but it's important to think about what kinds of characters actually use that word, and when. Particularly in the absence of actual frost, I can't imagine a no-nonsense muscle-character saying it very often. If you imagine a context where this character is actually informing other characters that the temperature is low, then the straightforward, utilitarian "cold" is preferable IMHO. You could try to work in something about the "biting cold" or "chilling to the bone" or other unpleasant metaphors, but then you start running the risk of over-writing what's supposed to be a short little observation.

There are other times when big, fancy adjectives look out of place against the game's simple backdrop, too. I don't want to dumb things down, but I don't want to ruin the charm by trying to impress people with my vocabulary.

Let me put it this way: I use a thesaurus, but I don't want it to look like I use a thesaurus.

I'm glad that it's you that has to pay attention to these things and not me!

That's pretty much how I feel when I read your (excellent!) development blog.  :wink:

As Ivan suggested, consider using word order or word choice to represent a similar or analogous character element. Again, you may have to be putting a few words in the character's mouth, but I think you can be forgiven if you give it the proper care.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I do. The reason why I posted all that was just to illustrate the kinds of things that happen in a translation. It's all good.  8)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 03:37:57 PM by SamIAm »

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #142 on: February 03, 2016, 10:21:38 PM »
Chapter 4 play-testing (first pass) is done.

Chapter 4 is perhaps the single most complicated one in the game. It's not that it has the most text or the most complex maps or anything, although it's no slouch in either of those categories, either. It's more that it has a high number of characters, with a lot of variety between them and many who are important to the story. I also think it has the highest number of "tasks" you have to do and mini-events that push the story forward.

I tried to be pretty diligent when I edited things, going back and checking anything I changed. Altogether, I think I spent at least 15 hours going through this one, but it should be worth it.

Just like it was with writing the rough drafts, play-testing Chapters 5, 6 and 7 is going to be its own "hump" to get over. Whenever it is that I finally finish this first pass, I think it will really start to feel like we're rolling downhill.

I better start getting the dub-script ready this month. I've got a complete draft that's been edited once, but it needs some tweaking and LOTS of notes added for the actors. It will be a busy spring, that's for sure.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 10:23:13 PM by SamIAm »

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #143 on: February 08, 2016, 01:43:50 AM »
Chapter 9 is 100% translated and only needs proofreading.

Chapter 10 is pre-translation preview-played as of this morning. Bear in mind that this is the last chapter I have to translate and it's half the size of a normal chapter. I aim to have this done and proofread before the 20th.

Chapter 5 is half test-played, which means that the entire game is about half test-played. Given how much time it took, I hope to finish this first run-through by mid/late-March.

Elmer has done some really amazing hacking to spruce up the font recently. It's now fully variable-width and uses kerning. I'll leave it to him to post the lovely screenshots. There may be a minor tweak or two later, but the font is basically locked in and looking good.  :D
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:26:20 PM by SamIAm »

wyndcrosser

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #144 on: February 08, 2016, 08:25:52 AM »
Thanks for the update SAMIAM.

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #145 on: February 13, 2016, 03:29:33 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached a major milestone. The first draft of the Xanadu I script is complete. I think I started working on the cutscenes sometime in October, and elmer gave me the main script-dump sometime in early November, so this has been roughly five months in the making.

I also finished play-testing Chapter 5 the other day, so that's coming right along, too. If I can keep up the current pace, I should finish by April.

I definitely want to give the game at least one more pass after that, but the next round should go more quickly. I hope that I can have the dub completed AND the second pass finished by the end of May. What should happen after that, we'll just have to decide when the time comes.

Now I will begin to look at Xanadu II's new script-dump and the English that's been merged from the old dump. With a little luck, it will only take a few weeks to get everything ready for a play-test of its own. Thankfully, Xanadu II is so much shorter than the first game that that shouldn't take long at all.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 03:37:25 PM by SamIAm »

elmer

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2016, 03:44:47 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached a major milestone. The first draft of the Xanadu I script is complete. I think I started working on the cutscenes sometime in October, and elmer gave me the main script-dump sometime in early November, so this has been roughly five months in the making.

Woo hoooooooo, great job, SamIAm!!! :D :clap:

But seriously ... 5 months already ... jeez, where did the time go.  :-k

I'm pretty amazed that we've not come across more missing text, or bugs in the insertion, yet ... but there's still time!  :wink:

johnnykonami

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #147 on: February 13, 2016, 03:48:46 PM »
Congrats guys!

SamIAm

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #148 on: February 13, 2016, 05:20:29 PM »
Woo hoooooooo, great job, SamIAm!!! :D :clap:

But seriously ... 5 months already ... jeez, where did the time go.  :-k

I'm pretty amazed that we've not come across more missing text, or bugs in the insertion, yet ... but there's still time!  :wink:

Thank you kindly, elmer.  :wink:

If everything up to Chapter 5 works fine, I see no reason why the others are going to pose a problem. Famous last words, I know, but I've played them all recently, and it certainly appears they don't do anything different or special.

Anyway, great work yourself on making the font look so dang good. I just hope I can make the script high enough quality to match it.

Onward!  :D

Congrats guys!

Thanks to you, too!

seieienbu

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Re: Xanadu I and II - General Translation Project(s) Thread
« Reply #149 on: February 13, 2016, 06:19:01 PM »
f*ck yeah!
Current want list:  Bomberman 93