Author Topic: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community! Nearly Gone  (Read 31351 times)

pdiggitydogg

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #345 on: November 16, 2015, 09:34:22 PM »
They're coming!! :D

SamIAm

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #346 on: November 16, 2015, 09:59:39 PM »
Quote
These repros are why we're going to have fewer translations done going forward.

But why? This is like a musician or movie producer saying that they will no longer record music or make any movies just because someone might download the song/movie and sell a disc of it. This happens all the time. Especially with odd or rare releases. Not saying it's right. It just happens.

Not sure if this is doable but maybe make a boot up screen for any future translations that states the translation should be free? I don't know.

Maybe someone from here could work with future translators to make discs for them. Thus keeping the market from wanting tobias copies? Just a thought.


I don't fully understand it either. To boil down the whole situation, we have a company, for instance HudsonSoft, who makes a game and owns the rights to it. They sell their game and make their money. Then we have a person who modifies that game so people can enjoy it in a region it wasn't originally enjoyed in, but gets pissy when someone markets that work. As I see it there are two problems here. First, If the goal is to help people enjoy games they originally couldn't, why not embrace the marketing that is sure to follow? People will get the enjoyment that was intended. And second, taking the position that their work is stolen and misused is ignoring that they have already done that to the IP of, in this example: HudsonSoft, to begin with. It makes them not just a hypocritic but ones of the whiney variety. If they genuinely don't enjoy their work (which is stolen to begin with) to be stolen and sold, then they should take the effort to create the pressed discs and undercut the cost of the one they view as a thief. Forcing them out of the market. To not do that brings us back to my first issue above -live and let live.

Above all the other crap I could mention, the involvement of money greatly increases the probability of original IP holders coming in to shut down our projects and threaten the entire fan translation scene. There's a big difference between us offering unauthorized translation patches for free in the name of sharing and someone making unauthorized repros in the name of profit. I do not want to be associated with the latter kind of operation in any way.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:27:40 PM by SamIAm »

Keith Courage

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #347 on: November 16, 2015, 11:32:48 PM »
Quote
Above all the other crap I could mention, the involvement of money greatly increases the probability of original IP holders coming in to shut down our projects and threaten the entire fan translation scene. There's a big difference between us offering unauthorized translation patches for free in the name of sharing and someone making unauthorized repros in the name of profit. I do not want to be associated with the latter kind of operation in any way.

Oh, this is a good point. Never thought about that one.

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #348 on: November 17, 2015, 12:10:53 AM »
Quote
These repros are why we're going to have fewer translations done going forward.

But why? This is like a musician or movie producer saying that they will no longer record music or make any movies just because someone might download the song/movie and sell a disc of it. This happens all the time. Especially with odd or rare releases. Not saying it's right. It just happens.

Not sure if this is doable but maybe make a boot up screen for any future translations that states the translation should be free? I don't know.

Maybe someone from here could work with future translators to make discs for them. Thus keeping the market from wanting tobias copies? Just a thought.

Because translation team members are real people with individual opinions and some have their own reasons why and won't change their mind.

The reason why bootlegs of translations are made against the translation team's wishes and the reason there is a market for them is the same. Buyers and sellers both think the same thing: "I want what I want, therefore the translators should feel the same way (about me getting whatever I want)".

Again, this isn't a debate about what the reactions of some could be and/or the potential fallout. It's already happened and is happening. One part that many people can't seem to wrap their head around about some translation team members not being swayed is: Both with PCE translations and translated games in general, no matter how strongly anyone communicates their wishes for physical copies to not be produced or sold, people are doing it anyway and for the worst reasons.

Just the same, we'll soon see a lot of these loose copies being flipped on eBay. Hopefully way less than if they'd trickled out slowly from Tobias to customers. But just wait until these titles are all officially "sold out". Just like the raffles, look at how many low post count members are appearing out of nowhere who care so little that they can't follow such simple rules as who to contact and how to pay. How likely are all of them to follow the "don't sell them" rule, which they likely glossed over in the first place? Especially considering how a strong majority of "retro" fans get their enjoyment from games (bragging about hauls, deals, investments, etc).
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grendelrt

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #349 on: November 17, 2015, 01:16:02 AM »
Keep an eye on yalls email.  I am doing some shipping tonight via PayPal.  :)
Got my shipment email, thanks Bernie!

IvanBeavkov

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #350 on: November 17, 2015, 02:51:30 AM »
tldr - It's complicated.

I've been thinking about the issue of reproductions and the community and here is my 2 cents.

Reproductions will happen, I think that fact there is only 1 person/group doing Turbo reproductions (is this correct, I have not seen another) is surprising considering how easy it is to press CDs.

I did a google search for "SNES Reproductions" and i got 6 different sites selling repros in the first 7 links. Which are selling the likes of Zelda ROM hacks, F-Zero 2, Star Fox 2, and English translations of Bahamut Lagoon, Final Fantasy 4, 5, & 6, Ys, DragonBall Z, Tenchi Muyou RPG, and many many others.

So to me it looks like if you translate a SNES game a reproduction WILL be made.

I'm not sure but I think this means the odds of legal reprisal are probably low, especially to the translators. Now I'm not saying it is not a valid concern, it is, I just think the odds are low.

So I guess it comes down to how much will it bother you that someone else might take your work and make money from it? This is a tough question and one each person has to answer for themselves.


Now how does this apply to the Turbo community? I mean you can just burn a CDR, right? (I'm not going to talk about chip games since the everdrive is an option there.) Well as shown by some threads on this site that is still too high a bar for some. I have made my fair share of coasters myself.

So someone who wants to play a game that is talked about being great but it is expensive decides to burn a CDR. They find an iso and get some burning software, burn the disc with the default settings, try it, and it does not work. So they find someplace to ask questions, here, some other forum, facebook, wherever, and they are told, "Well you should use software X and brand Y of CDR. Oh, and you need to set your burn settings to Z." They try again it still does not work.

They ask more questions, maybe read a guide. Eventually they get a good burn, it works but not well. It skips, does not always load or has extra long load times. At this point they have spent 2 weeks burned a dozen CDRs and still have not played the game, and now might have to pay to get the laser adjusted to read CDRs better. This means they will be without their system for a while and can't play any of the other games they have either.

At this point spending some $$$ on a pressed bootleg starts looking mighty good since the system plays pressed discs just fine. So when you say to just burn a disc and don't buy bootlegs, what people are comparing is:

A lot at time end effort to get a good burn and possibly sending their system to get the laser to get re-calibrated.
  vs
Dropping some $$$ on a bootleg that will be shipped to them in a couple of days.

Yes there are the shelf collectors and flippers out there but I don't think it is productive to spend to much time or energy worrying about them. If no one did anything that could be flipped then nothing would be done. Then I think the community would slowly shrink and die which would be a much greater tragedy.

Wow, that got to be a lot longer than I expected. If you read the whole thing congratulations you get 1 internet cookie* and think you for reading. :-)

*Not a real cookie.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 02:54:12 AM by IvanBeavkov »

shawnji

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #351 on: November 17, 2015, 04:43:27 AM »
I wonder how difficult it is to add a screen at boot-up that says something like, "This is a non-profit fan-translation.  If you have paid more than the cost of shipping and materials for this product, you have been ripped off.  Please support the official release."  I can recall Tomato having his own little intro screen on a Super Famicom detective game he translated, so it seems doable.  I just don't know how much work it would entail to make it happen and whether or not repro makers are savvy enough to remove them;
 making them pointless.

I'd almost be tempted to have a really boring NPC say something about it if the former would be wasted effort.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 04:46:24 AM by shawnji »

Black Tiger

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #352 on: November 17, 2015, 04:54:08 AM »
I wonder how difficult it is to add a screen at boot-up that says something like, "This is a non-profit fan-translation.  If you have paid more than the cost of shipping and materials for this product, you have been ripped off.  Please support the official release."  I can recall Tomato having his own little intro screen on a Super Famicom detective game he translated, so it seems doable.  I just don't know how much work it would entail to make it happen and whether or not repro makers are savvy enough to remove them;
 making them pointless.

I'd almost be tempted to have a really boring NPC say something about it if the former would be wasted effort.

This has been discussed at great length here and dev and translation team members and the rest of the normies are evenly divided.
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technozombie

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My shipment arrived. Thanks Bernie and all those involved. Looking forward to the next round.

elderbroom

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #354 on: November 17, 2015, 06:06:27 AM »
My shipment arrived today .. north of the border.  Thanks again Bernie, and everyone else helping with this effort. This was really the only scenario in which I would acquire these repros.  Looking forward to the next round.

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Bernie

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #355 on: November 17, 2015, 08:14:02 AM »
Almost out of Dracula X, MM3, and Shadowgate. 

Samuray

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #356 on: November 17, 2015, 08:24:30 AM »
Almost out of Dracula X, MM3, and Shadowgate. 

That reminds me: Should I already pay for the Shadowgate you put aside for me while we wait for the Dungeon Explorer II batch? I know you send out the invoices and don't want people to send money, but we can do it anytime if you like. Or we wait.




Bernie

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #357 on: November 17, 2015, 08:30:44 AM »
Almost out of Dracula X, MM3, and Shadowgate. 

That reminds me: Should I already pay for the Shadowgate you put aside for me while we wait for the Dungeon Explorer II batch? I know you send out the invoices and don't want people to send money, but we can do it anytime if you like. Or we wait.





No, I have it set aside for you.

seieienbu

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #358 on: November 17, 2015, 08:37:07 AM »
How many discs were you sent to begin with?
Current want list:  Bomberman 93

Bernie

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Re: Turbob Xpress: Bringing affordable "gamer's" games to the community!
« Reply #359 on: November 17, 2015, 08:39:08 AM »
How many discs were you sent to begin with?

A lot