is Tatsujin a rare title? How difficult does it compare to Genesis port?

[Liquid Snake]

Looks like PC Engine port looks a lot better in graphics.  But is it a rare title? 

[tbone3969]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

[Opethian]

The game is way harder on PCE than the MD ever could image. I wouldn't consider it rare by any means.

[Punch]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

tbone3969, in a nutshell

[lukester]

It came out several years after the Megadrive version and was a late HuCard release (July 1992). Also Taito's last HuCard.

It's definitely uncommon, if not rare. A lot harder than the Megadrive version too, especially the minibosses.

With 5 continues, I could only make it to Stage 3.

[SignOfZeta]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

Jumping Jesus on a Pogo Stick...

[Black Tiger]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

The Arcade Card and Super CD formats do not enhance the PC Engine's graphic abilities. All that they do is bottleneck the amount of content per gameplay segment.

The PC Engine has 32 16-color palettes at once for graphics. The Genesis has 4. Tatsujin isn't taxing for either console, so the big difference is that the PCE version has better color, shading and detail.

Most people seem to prefer the music of the PCE version, but both ports have mediocre sound and arrangements.

The PCE version is much harder and is supposed to play much more faithful to the arcade original. Similar to the difference between Daimakaimura PCE/Arcade/Genesis.

No version has any parallax.

It sells for half of that on eBay.

[Liquid Snake]

It costs about the same as magical chase.......

[Black Tiger]

It costs about the same as magical chase.......

Less than half.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=magical+chase+ebay&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=magical+chase+pc+engine&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-NEC-PC-Engine-Games-HE-System-Hu-Card-Japan-Import-Rare-TATSUJIN-/151838309719?hash=item235a44bd57:g:pYUAAOSw42JWEV-O

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nec-Pc-Engine-Hu-Card-Tatsujin-Worldwide-Shipping-/181844095347?hash=item2a56c0b173:g:ayQAAOSwHnFV2gxZ

[blueraven]

Tatsujin is a $30 game. Shame on the sellers who are charging more.

Greedy gouging bastards. 

[tbone3969]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

The Arcade Card and Super CD formats do not enhance the PC Engine's graphic abilities. All that they do is bottleneck the amount of content per gameplay segment.

The PC Engine has 32 16-color palettes at once for graphics. The Genesis has 4. Tatsujin isn't taxing for either console, so the big difference is that the PCE version has better color, shading and detail.

Most people seem to prefer the music of the PCE version, but both ports have mediocre sound and arrangements.

The PCE version is much harder and is supposed to play much more faithful to the arcade original. Similar to the difference between Daimakaimura PCE/Arcade/Genesis.

No version has any parallax.

It sells for half of that on eBay.

Thank you for schooling me on the graphics capable in the TurboGrafx.  I always thought Genesis was more powerful (slightly) than the Turbo.  I stand corrected.

Now as far as the different CD cards not improving graphics, that's news to me as well.  When I look at games such as Drac X or Sapphire I always thought the cards were helping to produce those amazing graphics.

[Black Tiger]

Well looking at the $200-$300 price range on eBay I'd say it's rare.  Are the graphics really better than the Genesis port?  I find that hard to believe since it is not an Arcade Card or System 3.0 card CD game.

The Arcade Card and Super CD formats do not enhance the PC Engine's graphic abilities. All that they do is bottleneck the amount of content per gameplay segment.

The PC Engine has 32 16-color palettes at once for graphics. The Genesis has 4. Tatsujin isn't taxing for either console, so the big difference is that the PCE version has better color, shading and detail.

Most people seem to prefer the music of the PCE version, but both ports have mediocre sound and arrangements.

The PCE version is much harder and is supposed to play much more faithful to the arcade original. Similar to the difference between Daimakaimura PCE/Arcade/Genesis.

No version has any parallax.

It sells for half of that on eBay.

Thank you for schooling me on the graphics capable in the TurboGrafx.  I always thought Genesis was more powerful (slightly) than the Turbo.  I stand corrected.

Now as far as the different CD cards not improving graphics, that's news to me as well.  When I look at games such as Drac X or Sapphire I always thought the cards were helping to produce those amazing graphics.

The System Cards are basically tiny flashcarts, so small that only one stage or area or game segment can exist on it at any given time. A typical stage-based game on Super CD would only amount to a 8 - 16 meg HuCard. Just as Genesis and SNES games on huge carts have more assets, the larger space each System Card provides over previous formats, the greater potential there is for art and animation.

CD2 = <0.5 megs of content per segment
SCD= <2 megs
ACD = <18 megs


The PCE has a very powerful cpu and the way the system renders images, it is very good at handling animation. It can be argued that the Genesis or PCE are faster than the other when it comes to running typical 2D games. Generally you see less slowdown on PCE and less flicker on Genesis. But they're both comparable when it comes to handling lots of sprites/action and animation. The SNES significantly trails behind them both in these ways.

The PCE is also good at sampled sounds and can run samples through all 6 channels at once without programming tricks. The Genesis can only run samples through one channel at a time without programming work arounds. Some of these methods work great, other like the SFII ports were handled poorly.

Games like Sapphire have enough segment space to store enough animation to show what the PCE can actually handle.

Tatsujin is only a 4 meg HuCard, so it's likely the same size as the Genesis version.

[SignOfZeta]

"Graphics" is a broad term. The higher end system cards will improve "graphics" to the extent that you'll have more animation than a 1.0 CD game and that's certainly good, but if what you want to do will fit on a HuCARD then it's not going to be improved by an Arcade Card. Color, resolution, speed, all that is the same with any PCE game. So it's not that the PCE isn't more powerful with the higher end cards, it's just that that power isn't going to help very much with porting Tatsujin from the arcade. It would help a shitload in porting Dragon's Lair or King of Fighters.

Think of the 3.0 and Arcade Cards as adding more pages to a book or budget to a movie. If the resources are there to make the most of it, terrific, but if you don't have TO MANY good artists and musicians and programmers to fit into a 1.0 CD you aren't going to see a single difference.

This is why games like Valis III, and Ys I&II are some of the best things on the system despite only being 1.0 games and stuff like Battle in Tokyo Dome '94 is lame as hell despite requiring an Arcade Card.

[tbone3969]

"Graphics" is a broad term. The higher end system cards will improve "graphics" to the extent that you'll have more animation than a 1.0 CD game and that's certainly good, but if what you want to do will fit on a HuCARD then it's not going to be improved by an Arcade Card. Color, resolution, speed, all that is the same with any PCE game. So it's not that the PCE isn't more powerful with the higher end cards, it's just that that power isn't going to help very much with porting Tatsujin from the arcade. It would help a shitload in porting Dragon's Lair or King of Fighters.

Think of the 3.0 and Arcade Cards as adding more pages to a book or budget to a movie. If the resources are there to make the most of it, terrific, but if you don't have TO MANY good artists and musicians and programmers to fit into a 1.0 CD you aren't going to see a single difference.

This is why games like Valis III, and Ys I&II are some of the best things on the system despite only being 1.0 games and stuff like Battle in Tokyo Dome '94 is lame as hell despite requiring an Arcade Card.

Gotcha.  Well written explanation.  Thank you.

[Bonknuts]

Parallax a side, the PCE has the exact same restraints as the Genesis and SNES; memory (rom). CD 1.0 and 2.0 are extremely restricted and yet some decent amount of games were made for it. CD 3.0 is what should have been in the first place, but it also has its limitations. By the time SCD 3.0 came out, it was already behind in memory restrictions of the era. The Arcade card is about right on target (look at the huge carts on the SNES around 94-95 era), but at the end of the PCE's life.

 The CD addon doesn't give it graphical upgrades like the SegaCD, or addon chips like the SuperFX, SVP, DSPs, etc. Just more memory. What you're seeing, in the difference between hucards and CD games, is a split going from one format to another - at the same time games and standards (graphics related in particular) were being raised. Just look at the early hucards in relation to the late gen games; the system was always capable of the late gen games (just like the evolution of game standards on the Genesis, etc). So the CD system replacing the hucard format is just a coinciding event in time, and not particularly the reason why PCE games became "better". The PCE had that early 16bit charm to it, and it just took longer for the system to shed that image than it did on other systems.