Author Topic: Paris  (Read 1746 times)

wildfruit

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Re: Paris
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2015, 08:25:51 AM »
Sorry double post
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 08:27:43 AM by wildfruit »

Necromancer

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Re: Paris
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2015, 08:35:01 AM »
The problem come from the failure of integrating those people for decades.

That assumes they wanted to assimilate but the man kept 'em down.  Perhaps that's true in France, but it sure as shit ain't true in the US.
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CatPix

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Re: Paris
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2015, 09:13:33 AM »
Les banlieues, indeed. Tho it's just a word for "suburbs". It just come that indeed, around Paris mostly, but also Marseille and other large French cities, some suburbs erected in the 60's were temporary housing for people moving from the countryside to towns.
Which mean they were build with no idea of quality, duration, and being a living place - just stack people in one place until said people can access decent housing.

In the 70's the oil crisis started, halting most housing projects. Also, as people moved from the already decaying buildings, immigrants were housed in, because they were empty and cheap solutions. And they stayed.

They couldn't integrate : they were living together, the nearest school (in France, you can not really choose the public school you wanna attend, it's the closest geographically to your home - private schools are up to your choice, but they aren't free of course) in which only the teacher would be French.


Yay, home sweet home

Ironically, usually, the immigrants themselves tried their bes to assimilate. But their kids and grand-kids didn't as well.
The non-French borns are part of the French society, but the French born 3rd and 4th generation aren't. This is where the failure is.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 09:15:52 AM by CatPix »

RyuHayabusa

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Re: Paris
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2015, 09:28:58 AM »
Catpix, here's the issue though. Who asked them to come to France? It's like the whole idea is, get to the border, announce your arrival, and expect to be put up in a cushy little house with a car, free education, and a free dog for the kids. What the hell ever happened to deposing tyrants and making your homeland a better place? Why is the solution to everyone's ills simply getting to a Westernized country and mooching off the government? America and Europe are being flooded by unskilled, uneducated, dirt poor immigrants who get on government programs the instant they cross the border. That's why Europe and America are going broke.

Quote
That assumes they wanted to assimilate but the man kept 'em down.  Perhaps that's true in France, but it sure as shit ain't true in the US.

Exactly. Most people are unaware that the US halted most immigration from 1924 to 1965 to allow for assimilation of the waves of European immigrants. However, no such moratorium has been done for the millions and millions that have come since. Many immigrants in the US and Europe simply do not want to assimilate.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 09:34:55 AM by RyuHayabusa »

toymachine78

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Re: Paris
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2015, 09:48:43 AM »
Catpix, here's the issue though. Who asked them to come to France? It's like the whole idea is, get to the border, announce your arrival, and expect to be put up in a cushy little house with a car, free education, and a free dog for the kids. 

That's what's being reported out of Sweden. Refugees are pissed because there is not enough permanent housing, food, etc. Pissed because Christian church bells are rang within their earshot, refused water and blankets cause they were emblazoned with the Red Cross. So they are holding violent protests.

My only source is Red Ice Radio, and I haven't confirmed at other outlets, but I trust their content 100 times over any "mainstream" outlet.

Edit: .... And I think it is absolutely, positively, 100% bat shit insane that our Goverrats are still making plans to accept 10,000 of these people, after the Paris attacks!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 09:53:45 AM by toymachine78 »

RyuHayabusa

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Re: Paris
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2015, 10:07:56 AM »
Catpix, here's the issue though. Who asked them to come to France? It's like the whole idea is, get to the border, announce your arrival, and expect to be put up in a cushy little house with a car, free education, and a free dog for the kids. 

That's what's being reported out of Sweden. Refugees are pissed because there is not enough permanent housing, food, etc. Pissed because Christian church bells are rang within their earshot, refused water and blankets cause they were emblazoned with the Red Cross. So they are holding violent protests.

My only source is Red Ice Radio, and I haven't confirmed at other outlets, but I trust their content 100 times over any "mainstream" outlet.

Edit: .... And I think it is absolutely, positively, 100% bat shit insane that our Goverrats are still making plans to accept 10,000 of these people, after the Paris attacks!

Exactly. In areas of London white Brits are being stopped on the streets at night and told to dispose of alcoholic beverages, to stop holding hands with their girlfriends in public, etc. by enforcers of Sharia Law. Anything, and I mean anything, can be viewed as offensive and reason to bomb and massacre people.

CatPix

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Re: Paris
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2015, 10:46:09 AM »
unskilled, uneducated, dirt poor immigrants who get on government programs the instant they cross the border
Beleive it or not, as the Calais jungle prove, it's not what's going on ATM. Plus, France has now one of the lowest levels of immigrant acceptance - that is, immigrants that get a visa to stay in France legally. Even Great Britain allow more immigrants!
And after that, they don't have a choice really - they HAVE to sit through a government program to learn the language, customs and laws, and to get a job.

Overall, survey shows that French Muslims have much more openness and tolerance then their British and German counterparts -- so our assimilation model isn't completely broken.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 10:48:28 AM by CatPix »

Opethian

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Re: Paris
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2015, 01:17:22 AM »
Catpix, here's the issue though. Who asked them to come to France? It's like the whole idea is, get to the border, announce your arrival, and expect to be put up in a cushy little house with a car, free education, and a free dog for the kids. 


That's what's being reported out of Sweden. Refugees are pissed because there is not enough permanent housing, food, etc. Pissed because Christian church bells are rang within their earshot, refused water and blankets cause they were emblazoned with the Red Cross. So they are holding violent protests.

My only source is Red Ice Radio, and I haven't confirmed at other outlets, but I trust their content 100 times over any "mainstream" outlet.

Edit: .... And I think it is absolutely, positively, 100% bat shit insane that our Goverrats are still making plans to accept 10,000 of these people, after the Paris attacks!


http://www.thelocal.se/20140108/rape-is-a-muslim-form-of-punishment-sweden-democrat

seems legit

[Mon 16:27] <BlueBMW> i wouldnt sell an unmolested duo hehe.  I molest the crap outta of em before they leave me

Necromancer

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Re: Paris
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2015, 01:54:50 AM »
In the Koran, women are essentially property and aren't allowed to say yes or no.  Sex is either between a man and his wife (wives) or slaves, or it's forbidden premarital sex or adultery.
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SamIAm

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Re: Paris
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2015, 02:03:38 AM »
Exactly. In areas of London white Brits are being stopped on the streets at night and told to dispose of alcoholic beverages, to stop holding hands with their girlfriends in public, etc. by enforcers of Sharia Law. Anything, and I mean anything, can be viewed as offensive and reason to bomb and massacre people.

I googled this. Am I missing something, or has this only actually happened a couple times in the past few years, and the nut-jobs doing it got arrested?

That's what's being reported out of Sweden. Refugees are pissed because there is not enough permanent housing, food, etc. Pissed because Christian church bells are rang within their earshot, refused water and blankets cause they were emblazoned with the Red Cross. So they are holding violent protests.

Googled this, too. What came up first was actually violent anti-muslim protests.

Not trying to brush off the stuff that's actually happened. But there's a lot of talk of Europe being transformed into an immigrant hellhole, and if it's mostly just non-violent grumbling about churchbells with the occasional little brushfire, that seems a tad exaggerated.

CatPix

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Re: Paris
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2015, 03:45:58 AM »
Yep, people select their information sources to go in their direction.

I mean if you listen to Faux News, some parts of Paris were no go zones as well.


There is no doubt that in some places, communities tried to establish their own rules, or some protested for things.

But like for "Chistian" bells (Well, no other major religion in europe have religious places with bells); some people protested against them. It's even a common thing that you see popping in the news multiple time here a year (mostly when online news have nothing else to feed their colums in one hour).

Rampant Muslim invasion? Nope, just some jerks moving from larger cities to more "quiet" and rural places and being bothered because the first bell ring at 7H during Sunday (because you know, that church wasn't here when they bough their house).

And sure enough, if you remove all the Pierre Dupont and Maurice Durand from the list of protesters you'll eventually found an Abdul Alhazred and you can claim "Muslims wanna destroy the church".


And about the Koran being mysoginic... It's about the same in the Torah/Old Testament, and only slightly less worse in the New Testament.

Of course today such things aren't as enforced in Christianity as they were once, but they were.

Not even mentionning the bloody war between Christians themselves, exactly what is going on with the Sunnnites and the Chiites today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew's_Day_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Calas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fran%C3%A7ois-Jean_de_la_Barre
(and that's only events that I heard of in school... I'm sure you can quote lots more things from other European countries... and even the USA, like the Salem Witch Trial.)

I mean :
   
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Regarding Jean-Francois Lefebvre, chevalier de La Barre, we declare him convicted of having taught to sing and sung impious, execrable and blasphemous songs against God; of having profaned the sign of the cross in making blessings accompanied by foul words which modesty does not permit repeating; of having knowingly refused the signs of respect to the Holy Sacrament carried in procession by the priory of Saint-Pierre; of having shown these signs of adoration to foul and abominable books that he had in his room; of having profaned the mystery of the consecration of wine, having mocked it, in pronouncing the impure terms mentioned in the trial record over a glass of wine which he held in his hand and then drunken the wine; of having finally proposed to Petignat, who was serving mass with him, to bless the cruets while pronouncing the impure words mentioned in the trial record.

    In reparation of which, we condemn him to make honorable amend, in smock, head bare and a rope around his neck, holding in his hands a burning candle of two pounds before the principal door of the royal church... of Saint-Wulfram, where he will be taken in a tumbrel by the executioner who will attach before and behind him a sign on which will be written, in large letters impious one; and there, being on his knees, will confess his crimes...; this done, will have the tongue cut out and will then be taken in the said tumbrel to the public marketplace of this city to have his head cut off on a scaffold; his body and his head will then be thrown on a pyre to be destroyed, burnt, reduced to ashes and these thrown to the wind.


Merely 10 years before the American independance, you could be legally killed for shouting obscenities to a piece of wood and to a glass of wine ( ! )

Now this doesn't excuse at all the acts of terrorists, but it's a reminder of what our civilization was at, merely 250 years ago. And that what made Christianity being what it is now, didn't come FROM the Church, but from the societies it lives in(I feel a slippery slope coming here).
If things had been different, maybe we'd be of Muslim confession and Christians would be a group of raging terrorists in Middle east.
Religion is just a lever used by power hungry groups that like to see their name making the world shake in fear.

toymachine78

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Re: Paris
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2015, 05:49:52 AM »


I'm afraid we will see more of this all over Europe since they accepted tens of thousands of Syrian "Refugees" into their countries.

These types of attacks, of various sizes, will continue in Europe and all Western societies. Liberal immigration policies are to fault, but to even discuss the issue gets you labeled a xenophobic, bigoted racist.

It's confirmed now; 5 of the terrorists had French nationalities and at least 2 of them were born in Belgium.

So much for Syrian immigrates.

Hold your horses. This post is premature, as the investigation is far from complete. The refugee count will increase. They've already announced more refugee associations with the attack.

RyuHayabusa

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Re: Paris
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2015, 09:32:57 AM »
Catpix, we're talking about now, not 300 years or more ago. Look, I agree with you about religion. The history of Christianity is littered with horrible crimes. I'm an atheist who feels religion in general is outdated and more trouble than it's worth. Having said that, I don't think explaining away the truth about modern day Islamic extremism with claims of poverty and social disadvantage helps anybody. Most of the 9/11 hijackers we're well off and educated, as are most of the Islamic terrorists who've attacked in the West. There are thousands upon thousands of people flooding into the West with an ideology incompatible with democracy and the freedoms we enjoy. It's time to stop tap-dancing around the problem and do something about it.

CatPix

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Re: Paris
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2015, 11:12:20 AM »
No, there isn't thousand and thousand people with ideologies incompatible with our way of life. It it was, they would have been in the streets already and setting everything ablaze.
7 guys with AK47 guns set France in a state of war.
If all, or even 1/10 of the refugees were willing to fight a war with Europe, they would have already be coming with guns and shooting everywhere.
The Syrian refuggees are fleeeing away FROM Daesh and the crazy RELIGIOUS dictatorship set up by Bachar El-Hassad.
Most might not agree with all the values we got, but they aren't willing to fight them anyway.

Hold your horses. This post is premature, as the investigation is far from complete. The refugee count will increase. They've already announced more refugee associations with the attack.
Well what I mentionned are just official declarations by the Attorney of Paris (I think it's the right translation...) so it can't get better sources than that.

wildfruit

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Re: Paris
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2015, 09:28:50 AM »
Exactly. In areas of London white Brits are being stopped on the streets at night and told to dispose of alcoholic beverages, to stop holding hands with their girlfriends in public, etc. by enforcers of Sharia Law. Anything, and I mean anything, can be viewed as offensive and reason to bomb and massacre people.

I googled this. Am I missing something, or has this only actually happened a couple times in the past few years, and the nut-jobs doing it got arrested?

You are correct. I can think of no "no go" areas in any parts of London that I have been to. In fact the only community I can think of that was very closed to outsiders was/is orthodox Jews in Stamford hill. . They are VERY private. But still, not a no go area.