could we get a HU tray insert for jewel cases?

[jelloslug]

I have gone so far as to model the case and had it formally quoted from several injection molding vendors. From the cheapest place located in the US (with Chinese molds) I would have to buy 10,000 cases up front and then sell them all at $4.32 each just to break even.

Would the model you made be able to be used with a CNC milling machine to make a mold?

I don't know if any of you have heard of this place http://www.techshop.ws/. They have 10 locations across the US and for a small membership fee they give you access to lots of manufacturing tools, like milling machines and injection molders. They are open 24/7, except for a couple holidays. They also have training classes to learn how to use the various machines. This would be a much more hands on approach but probably cheaper.

Since I found out about this place I have been wanting to go there and see if this actual project is possible, but free time is not a thing I have much of.

A friend of mine bought this kickstarted board game Railroads that was made at the local techshop:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/337635364/railroads-a-boutique-wooden-board-game

Since it was made locally my friend when there to pick up his copy and the guy gave my friend a tour of the techshop, since the guy also works there. My friend said the place was awesome and he needed to come up with some projects to do so he could play with the tools.

So does anyone think this could be a viable process to make some insert trays?

Machining the mold is not really the problem, I could machine it here at work. I don't have an injection molding machine nor the skills to make the mold correctly so that the plastic flows properly in all the cavities.

[IvanBeavkov]

I have gone so far as to model the case and had it formally quoted from several injection molding vendors. From the cheapest place located in the US (with Chinese molds) I would have to buy 10,000 cases up front and then sell them all at $4.32 each just to break even.

Would the model you made be able to be used with a CNC milling machine to make a mold?

I don't know if any of you have heard of this place http://www.techshop.ws/. They have 10 locations across the US and for a small membership fee they give you access to lots of manufacturing tools, like milling machines and injection molders. They are open 24/7, except for a couple holidays. They also have training classes to learn how to use the various machines. This would be a much more hands on approach but probably cheaper.

Since I found out about this place I have been wanting to go there and see if this actual project is possible, but free time is not a thing I have much of.

A friend of mine bought this kickstarted board game Railroads that was made at the local techshop:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/337635364/railroads-a-boutique-wooden-board-game

Since it was made locally my friend when there to pick up his copy and the guy gave my friend a tour of the techshop, since the guy also works there. My friend said the place was awesome and he needed to come up with some projects to do so he could play with the tools.

So does anyone think this could be a viable process to make some insert trays?

Machining the mold is not really the problem, I could machine it here at work. I don't have an injection molding machine nor the skills to make the mold correctly so that the plastic flows properly in all the cavities.

Techshop might be a solution then. Just out of curiosity I looked at their classes and they have one for injection molding which teaches you how to set up your own mold use the machine.

[SignOfZeta]

I have no hard data to prove this, but sometimes I think the PCEFX ghetto brotherhood sells itself short when it comes to judging the potential viability of projects. I realize making these from ABS or styrene can be expensive, I also know it can be cheap because there are literally tens of millions of products out there that are made in the exact same way and they cost pennies. Cheap toys, kitchen gadgets, rulers, interior car trim panels, assloads of shit. And no, don't think they sold 800,000 units in all these cases to get the price that low. I'm not saying I have any idea how to do IP cheaper, I'm iuat saying that I know it *is* being done cheaper on a massive massive scale, as in entire container loads of shit is on its way from Taiwan right now that was made just like this and it's made at MSRP.

[jelloslug]

I have no hard data to prove this, but sometimes I think the PCEFX ghetto brotherhood sells itself short when it comes to judging the potential viability of projects. I realize making these from ABS or styrene can be expensive, I also know it can be cheap because there are literally tens of millions of products out there that are made in the exact same way and they cost pennies. Cheap toys, kitchen gadgets, rulers, interior car trim panels, assloads of shit. And no, don't think they sold 800,000 units in all these cases to get the price that low. I'm not saying I have any idea how to do IP cheaper, I'm iuat saying that I know it *is* being done cheaper on a massive massive scale, as in entire container loads of shit is on its way from Taiwan right now that was made just like this and it's made at MSRP.

The problem is quality. Sure, I could have the back case made in China out of some kind of random plastic but I would not even know the quality of the product until I had 10,000 of them on my door step. I have experience with having parts made in China/Southeast Asia and it is really a crap shoot.  Even in China having an injection mold made for a part the size of a back case or case insert is several thousand dollars and that is going to be an aluminum mold with a crappy surface finish that might last though a 10,000 part run. I feel that the only way a project of this caliber is going to go anywhere is to do a kickstarter and have people put their money were their mouth is.

[SignOfZeta]

I'm not talking about cutting every single corner until you arrive at total garbage. Like I said, I don't understand manufacturing realities beyond my own tiny place in the world. I just know that extremely inexpensive decent quality plastic shit is all over the place. I can buy a USB mouse for $10 that not only has a case construction more or less the same as what you'd want from a HuCARD tray, but also a shitload of electronics, a cable, some logo, etc and, aparently, some sort of profit margin built in. A typical $20,000 car has easily several thousand IP components. If they all cost what was quoted for HuCARD trays then the same car would be half a million bucks. Ever been to Harbor Freight? All that stuff was made at a profit and it costs almost nothing. Do you think the local law firm is paying $50 a piece for those promotional snow scrapers with their name on them? Of course not, because a snow scraper only costs $8 retail.

I think there is a way to do it with IP within reason and I have no idea how, but I'm sure it wil be done, probably soon, and probably by some other group, like the people that seem to make things like blank NES carts, AES shock boxes, flash cart housings, and all sorts of shit like that.

I'm mad busy these days but I will try casting them in the next month or two.

[esteban]

I'm not talking about cutting every single corner until you arrive at total garbage. Like I said, I don't understand manufacturing realities beyond my own tiny place in the world. I just know that extremely inexpensive decent quality plastic shit is all over the place. I can buy a USB mouse for $10 that not only has a case construction more or less the same as what you'd want from a HuCARD tray, but also a shitload of electronics, a cable, some logo, etc and, aparently, some sort of profit margin built in. A typical $20,000 car has easily several thousand IP components. If they all cost what was quoted for HuCARD trays then the same car would be half a million bucks. Ever been to Harbor Freight? All that stuff was made at a profit and it costs almost nothing. Do you think the local law firm is paying $50 a piece for those promotional snow scrapers with their name on them? Of course not, because a snow scraper only costs $8 retail.

I think there is a way to do it with IP within reason and I have no idea how, but I'm sure it wil be done, probably soon, and probably by some other group, like the people that seem to make things like blank NES carts, AES shock boxes, flash cart housings, and all sorts of shit like that.

I'm mad busy these days but I will try casting them in the next month or two.

All of the items you mentioned are produced at ridiculous economies of scale and are, for all intents and purposes, very generic items that have been refined and commoditized for decades. There is a known market, for decades, for computer mice and windshield scrapers (assuming you live in a climate cold enough). I was surprised you didn't mention ballpoint pens, plastic water bottles and combs.

I think you take for granted that a lot of the early design and revision (iterative process occurring with each successive manufacturing run) for generic goods were accomplished decades ago.

You can't compare generic, universal items produced in the millions with quirky little HuCARD trays...

Also, what relationships do any of us have with manufacturers/suppliers to negotiate better prices? We face the same problem with shipping/freighting charges...

What possible leverage could we have when we want an absurdly small run of mere thousands (10,000)...which is a nuisance?

Where are all of these items going to be stored for the next decade or two (assuming they aren't defective and unsellable)?

This is assuming that we get really lucky and the first batch is pretty much a perfect design, with materials that prove durable and aesthetically pleasing for a long period of time, and manufactured to exacting size specifications  (tray covers are not too tight, not too loose, swing freely, and hold manual firmly).

Also, hopefully, the item won't smell like formaldehyde for the next 25 years.

[lions3]

Sorry, if i'm a little late to this discussion. Also sorry if I repeat what others have said above. I read most of the first page and then started skimming.

I have two 3d printers I build plus I go to a TechShop once a month or so to laser cut.

For the tray inserts, I see a few different options (none perfect to original).

[uldecimal][li]One you CAD a version of the tray and just print away on a 3d printer (as someone is already doing in different thread)[/li][li]Take that 3d printed model and clean it up and make a silicone mold (or a bazillion molds if you want to scale up). This youtube video shows the same process done to make a Fallout4 Nuka Cola bottle in resin (

). Course if you're making a mold, why not take an original Hucard tray and make a silicone mold with that instead.[/li][li]The best way to mass produce would be an injection mold, but it's expensive and you need the machinery. Yes, you could use a Techshop. (I sat across from their injection molding machine earlier this week). The problem is that I doubt you're going to sit at a techshop for hours and hours to crank them out. I doubt their machine is meant for that kind of work load even. Plus you would need to take their injection molding class. Then pay $50 for a day pass. [/li][/ul]

[xelement5x]

Sorry, if i'm a little late to this discussion. Also sorry if I repeat what others have said above. I read most of the first page and then started skimming.

I have two 3d printers I build plus I go to a TechShop once a month or so to laser cut.

For the tray inserts, I see a few different options (none perfect to original).

[uldecimal][li]One you CAD a version of the tray and just print away on a 3d printer (as someone is already doing in different thread)[/li][li]Take that 3d printed model and clean it up and make a silicone mold (or a bazillion molds if you want to scale up). This youtube video shows the same process done to make a Fallout4 Nuka Cola bottle in resin (

). Course if you're making a mold, why not take an original Hucard tray and make a silicone mold with that instead.[/li][li]The best way to mass produce would be an injection mold, but it's expensive and you need the machinery. Yes, you could use a Techshop. (I sat across from their injection molding machine earlier this week). The problem is that I doubt you're going to sit at a techshop for hours and hours to crank them out. I doubt their machine is meant for that kind of work load even. Plus you would need to take their injection molding class. Then pay $50 for a day pass. [/li][/ul]

That video was fun to watch, thanks for sharing!

[Arkhan]

I was wondering with all the empty shell that are made now for NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, why cant somebody design a tray that could slide into a standard jewel case that would hold a HU card in place. That way we can put an insert in the back and they should be fairly cheap. I have heard that somebody is making 3D copies, but not how reliable that is or if it is true, I know 3D printing is expensive, so maybe a tray would cost less in the end.

Just an idea that i'm sure that has been brought up before.

You mean like the ones we made for Atlantean?  lol


They take forever to print, and come out sort of inconsistent.

and sometimes the printer just takes a shit and doesn't go well.

They're time consuming.

[lions3]

I've been reading up on resin casting... I'm starting to think that's probably the best bet. It's just the hassle of materials and setup. off to do more research..