Author Topic: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo  (Read 1426 times)

it290

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TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« on: February 02, 2016, 06:22:11 PM »
Hi guys,

I've spent a bit of time tonight perusing various hypothetical threads on the forum about NEC's strategy in North America, how they could have opposed the Nintendo/Sega juggernaut, and so on. It got me to thinking: what about NEC vs. SNK?

Now, a bit of backstory: I've loved both of these consoles for a long time. I've had a consolized MVS for quite a while, and a TurboGrafx for quite a while, loved the games on both. Growing up, I was a Sega kid in terms of consoles, but more (most?) of my gaming time at home was spent on the Commodore 64 and Amiga. I played TG-16 games at friends' houses along with other systems I didn't own (like NES and SNES) and the Neo Geo in the arcades. I remember playing games like the Bonk trilogy, Keith Courage, and Silent Debuggers on the turbo and games like Super Baseball 2020, Fatal Fury, and Samurai Shodown II on the MVS. Since then I've played and enjoyed the libraries of each system extensively.

Now, in terms of technical capability, game library, year released, and overall philosophy the two systems are obviously quite different—we're comparing apples and oranges. However, the Turbo/PCE and the Neo Geo share a few things in common: they're both niche systems and underdogs, and their appeal persists to this day because each system has great games that people still enjoy playing.

So, my question is this: which company/system made a greater mark on American gaming culture, and in what way?

I'd note that I'm not speaking only about the US game library, but what a hardcore gamer had access to imports, magazines, and a decent game shop experienced back then. For example, where I lived it was pretty common to find imported games on sale at an average game store, and you could probably special order them and figure out how to play them if you talked to the guy behind the counter, but you didn't know about absolutely everything or probably have interest in games that required extensive Japanese to play.

As for myself, I'm probably partial to SNK—Metal Slug is one of my favorite games of all time and games like KOF'94 lived up to my dreams about fighting games combining characters from many different fighters, and in general I just remember and play the games more, but still the TG-16 just holds this special place in my heart as a system where a lot of creativity flourished, it introduced new things and was (and is) clearly something special unto itself regardless of its commercial success or failure, but if I look at the actual ideas and techniques that each system has produced, I think that I probably see Neo Geo games being emulated and referenced more often than TG-16/PCE ones.

Since I'd imagine that most of you consider both of these consoles to be pretty awesome, I'm curious to hear your opinions about this—which system has a more enduring legacy and why? 

SignOfZeta

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 06:59:39 PM »
A bigger impact at the time, Neo for sure. Not only is it popular in dozens of countries where no one has ever heard of the PCE, it also basically spilled out over onto almost every system since. Somebody must be buying all these Neo ports because they never stop making them. Even the PCE itself had Neo ports.

Nowadays, with people who actually play a lot of 16-bit games, I'd say the PCE is more important since it made "home" games that captivate for hours instead of minutes. In other worlds, the games on PCE are like the games on FC, MD, etc. The games on Neo are...arcade games, and for some reason "classic" 80s/90s gaming is more associated with consoles in the US, probably because so many Americans live in the middle of nowhere and never go to arcades or much of anywhere.

lukester

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2016, 12:31:13 AM »
I love neo geo fighters, even though I'm pretty terrible.

Pce is better though. But the neo is much more popular

Otaking

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2016, 12:49:59 AM »
So, my question is this: which company/system made a greater mark on American gaming culture, and in what way?   

I like these type of versus threads but I can't comment on this one as I'm from the UK so wouldn't fully know about their impacts on "American gaming culture" back in the day.

Necromancer

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2016, 02:03:44 AM »
Read Zeta's post again for my answer.  He nailed it.

The PCE brought the rpg gaming world great voice acting, longer games, and more immersive story lines, but I can't say it made a bigger mark on gamers in general than the Neo's fighting games and other arcade goodness.
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johnnykonami

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2016, 05:14:11 AM »
Definitely the Neo.  The Turbo was an underdog.  Now we have people just learning of it's greatness but back in the day it was treated like a red headed step child next to the SNES and the Genesis, and it's market penetration in the US was a lot smaller that either of those.  The Neo Geo on the other hand, while most couldn't afford to have the home version - was plastered around every arcade and everyone experienced it that way at the very least.  I didn't know anyone who owned an AES personally (One friend eventually got a Neo CD) but everybody knew about Samurai Showdown from the arcade regardless of economic status.

Scillianaire

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2016, 05:18:42 AM »
Pc engine has the better community and is altogether amazing in its own right. But neo geo is a technical powerhouse with over a decade of incredible software. Sure crossed swords is no ys but its very good and very different from what else is out there. Pc engine is better for traditional home games. But neo geo has lots of games that transition very well into that style of play. If you cant sink endless hours into windjammers, magic drop 3, twinkle star sprites, and all those delicious fighters and the beat sports games ever made i dont know what to do with you. Home gaming is just as much about playing with friends as arcade gaming. Both are excellent for multiplayer. Dungeon explore 2 and bomber man coewrly out class neo geo on party gaming but neo geos multiplayer experience is a lot more intimate and involved. considering how many of the big games on both are arcade ports and shmups and neo geo is better at both, you have to give it up to the neo geo.

Otaking

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2016, 05:44:56 AM »
considering how many of the big games on both are arcade ports and shmups and neo geo is better at both, you have to give it up to the neo geo.
I absolutely adore the Neo Geo and it's shooters, Last Resort and ASO II are amongst my favourite shooters of all time. But there's no way you could suggest the Neo has superior shooters to the PC engine which has titles like Winds/Lords of Thunder, Soldier Blade, Spriggan, Magical Chase etc.. It would be like suggesting the PC Engine is better than the Neo at fighting games, which is just ludicrous. 
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 05:46:28 AM by Otaking »

Black Tiger

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2016, 06:15:38 AM »
Pc engine has the better community and is altogether amazing in its own right. But neo geo is a technical powerhouse with over a decade of incredible software. Sure crossed swords is no ys but its very good and very different from what else is out there. Pc engine is better for traditional home games. But neo geo has lots of games that transition very well into that style of play. If you cant sink endless hours into windjammers, magic drop 3, twinkle star sprites, and all those delicious fighters and the beat sports games ever made i dont know what to do with you. Home gaming is just as much about playing with friends as arcade gaming. Both are excellent for multiplayer. Dungeon explore 2 and bomber man coewrly out class neo geo on party gaming but neo geos multiplayer experience is a lot more intimate and involved. considering how many of the big games on both are arcade ports and shmups and neo geo is better at both, you have to give it up to the neo geo.

Sounds like you aren't very familiar with either library or history. :/
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Necromancer

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2016, 07:27:58 AM »
I can't say the NeoGeo has better shewties.  They're definitely good looking, but they're generally too damn hard (often cheap quarter munching hard) for my meager skills.
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blueraven

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 07:47:15 AM »
Yeah, Zeta was on point for that one.
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martinine

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2016, 11:27:40 AM »
Necro definitely has the right of it with Neo Geo shooters. Samurai Showdown 2 is almost on par with SFII in my heart. I love them both. The skill required to beat really any Neo fighting games, even on the 2-3 difficulty can be pretty serious. I have a Neo CD, and love the fighters. Wifey gave me View Point for Christmas, and I can say that I'd rather play Blazing Lazers, Soldier Blade, or Gate of Thunder any day.

As far as mark on gaming culture at the time, Neo-Geo was definitely the hard hitter. Even when I went to college in the 2000s, people would often drop their jaw that I had a Neo CD with King of Fighters, Fatal Fury Special, or Samurai Showdown going. Most people made fun of my TG16. Guys would always want to play Neo. No one ever asked me if we could play Turbo but my one other friend who had a Duo.

Needless to say, I still play both pretty regularly, but my Turbo/PCE gets MUCH more PT. Playing Gate of Thunder right now! Love all those stolen Dio riffs.
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SignOfZeta

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2016, 11:29:17 AM »
considering how many of the big games on both are arcade ports and shmups and neo geo is better at both, you have to give it up to the neo geo.
I absolutely adore the Neo Geo and it's shooters, Last Resort and ASO II are amongst my favourite shooters of all time. But there's no way you could suggest the Neo has superior shooters to the PC engine which has titles like Winds/Lords of Thunder, Soldier Blade, Spriggan, Magical Chase etc.. It would be like suggesting the PC Engine is better than the Neo at fighting games, which is just ludicrous. 

Pulstar doesn't seem possible on PCE. It might be, not sure why it wouldn't be, but damn it is a next level awesome thing to see run. Same with Last Resort, Blazing Star, Prehistoric Isle 2, and one or two others. At the time time, none of these games are as fun as Gate of Thunder.

I think if the Neo had 6-7 times as many games, like the PCE does, we'd probably have a better variety of shooter. On PCE there were just SO MANY of them over so many years that you end up with a lot of variety and competition. There isn't much competition on Neo, since there were only two or three major developers at any given time.

Btw, the PCE could never do KOF 2003, but the ACD version of Fatal Fury Special is extremely tight. Much closer to Neo than the other two contemporary home systems. For 1994 I would say it was dead nuts even, but the Neo lived another decade and all that experience and all those killer dev tools eventually had Neo looking like a completely different system. Capcom went through three arcade systems in the same time SNK went though one. * Sega went though probably 20. 






* The Volvo 240 of game systems, the Neo is a machine so muscular and legit that it outlasted it successor, the Hyper Neo Geo 64 by five years. However...that shit don't count. Nobody liked any of that 3D garbage and it was almost instantly killed.

Otaking

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2016, 11:34:34 AM »
I can't say the NeoGeo has better shewties.  They're definitely good looking, but they're generally too damn hard (often cheap quarter munching hard) for my meager skills.
I didn't mind the hard difficulty of the Neo Geo AES games back in the day, it felt like you were getting more of your moneys worth for the great expense.
Back then I would rent games for other systems and for the most part complete them within a few days before returning them to the rental store.
Imagine dropping £150 on a Neo game, then completing it in 2 days, would not of been cool.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 11:38:28 AM by Otaking »

SignOfZeta

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Re: TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2016, 12:31:23 PM »
You never "complete" a Neo game. You can see the credits in 15 minutes but the good ones last a lifetime.