TG-16 / PCE vs. Neo Geo

[Necromancer]

Neo seems to have a bit of an unfair advantage IMO....it was an arcade machine and a home console, the Turbo wasn't.

Uh, yeah it was.  It certainly wasn't common, but Turbob arcade cabs did exist.

[johnnykonami]

I guess I was the only one blown away by The Super Spy?  Upon seeing the perspective I am fairly sure that at the time I actually uttered the words "it's like you're in the game!!!" 


This is kind of an interesting question. Neo seems to have a bit of an unfair advantage IMO....it was an arcade machine and a home console, the Turbo wasn't.

I say that's unfair because at least in my world, I'd have NEVER even known about those SNK games or brand if not for the MVS in the arcade, or maybe because of those ads in the back of EGM. No one I knew owned an AES, for obvious reasons, and it seemed to get no real coverage in mags. So at the time, I'd say the Turbo had the biggest impact, as a home console.

So far as lasting legacy....well, they still put Neo Geo characters in fight games right? Are there any TG specific properties/ips that are still....alive/around?

I forgot about Super Spy.  I was also impressed with that one at the time, I remember a local Royal Farms had it.  Good memories of getting some potato wedge fries and playing it are coming back to me now!

[Otaking]

So, my question is this: which company/system made a greater mark on American gaming culture, and in what way?   

I like these type of versus threads but I can't comment on this one as I'm from the UK so wouldn't fully know about their impacts on "American gaming culture" back in the day.

Well, change that to 'Western gaming culture,' then—I'm definitely interested in hearing a UK perspective on this as well.

Well here in the UK at the very end of the 80s the PC Engine kicked off the whole "grey import" video games scene, it was really popular. Tons of small one man mail order companies sprung up which mainly sold through adverts in video games magazines. In the beginning it was basically all PC Engine games imported from Japan, practically zero US Turbografx games.

Then by around 1991 we started seeing Neo Geo AES, it was generally talked down in magazines for being ludicrously expensive. I personally ignored the bad reviews as I played the MVS in arcades and knew the games were something special. Initially the Neo Geo AES wasn't popular, I felt people just dismissed it because of the price, but it did develop a very small cult following from hardcore gamers, there was even a "Neo Geo Owners Club".

In the beginning the PC Engine was massively more popular than the Neo but as 1993 rolled round the interest in PCE declined and the tables turned, as Neo was releasing games like Fatal Fury 2 and Samurai Shodown and interest rocketed, we were still gripped in Street Fighter fever and the Neo was delivering next level 2D fighting. I don't think loads of AES consoles or games were sold, it was still too expensive, but the average gamers perception of the AES changed, it was now a highly lauded machine, the "Rolls-Royce of games consoles".

Then by 1994 the PCE completely faded from existence (in the UK), nobody cared about the Arcade card or it's Neo Geo conversions. I personally was really hyped about the Arcade card, breathing new life into my beloved PC Engine.

Then in 1995 the mainstream was all about PlayStation and Ridge Racer. The Neo Geo then developed another cult following which persisted for years to come.

So overall I would say the Neo Geo made the greater mark here in the UK.

Here's a video from the time showing the Neo Geo and the PC Engine,
skip to 15.04 in the video.

mentioned before in this thread http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?topic=12525.0

[GoldenWheels]

Neo seems to have a bit of an unfair advantage IMO....it was an arcade machine and a home console, the Turbo wasn't.

Uh, yeah it was.  It certainly wasn't common, but Turbob arcade cabs did exist.

Fair enough! Was it a like a demo unit for the console or something though? I've just never seen it.

I've seen Cores or PC Engines run into Jamma boards I guess but I assumed those were homemade things.

[SignOfZeta]

As someone who, for the most part, HATES sports (the games themselves, the players, the team owners, the stadium owners, Gatorade, Nike, dog fighters, rapists, child beaters, the worse scum in America) I know what it's like to see the entire industry devote itself to something I can't stand. But fighters? They seem so innocent and sincere, the 16-bite era anyway, even the shit ones, and the good ones are typically at the cutting edge of 2D animation.

The reason why the Neo had so so many fighters is because fighter fans loved the system enough to keep it going. Blues Journey doesn't sell and we're taking about a system where just to manufacture the game you need a parts list twice as expensive as a retail Genesis game...and that's before you start coding or drawing anything. You can't make unpopular stuff.

Also, I love Neo sports games, despite hating actual sports. I think if certain people were more open minded they might like a fighter or too...

[esteban]

As someone who, for the most part, HATES sports (the games themselves, the players, the team owners, the stadium owners, Gatorade, Nike, dog fighters, rapists, child beaters, the worse scum in America) I know what it's like to see the entire industry devote itself to something I can't stand. But fighters? They seem so innocent and sincere, the 16-bite era anyway, even the shit ones, and the good ones are typically at the cutting edge of 2D animation.

The reason why the Neo had so so many fighters is because fighter fans loved the system enough to keep it going. Blues Journey doesn't sell and we're taking about a system where just to manufacture the game you need a parts list twice as expensive as a retail Genesis game...and that's before you start coding or drawing anything. You can't make unpopular stuff.

Also, I love Neo sports games, despite hating actual sports. I think if certain people were more open minded they might like a fighter or too...

I hear you.

I was speaking in broad strokes: I can appreciate the *concept* of fighters, I have given them them a chance for 20+ years...but they will never be a something that *moves me* (if SFII and the legacy it spawned never existed, say, in an alternate universe, I would not shed a single tear).

I am actually much more willing to give certain sports games some love: golf + baseball, in particular, have worked their way into my heart. I love them. But that soccer (futbol) game in the NeoGeo at my laundromat was cruel, cruel torture. Baseball Stars on NeoGeo is actually not as gratifying as NES Baseball Stars (not kidding....I spent entire summers playing NES Baseball Stars, building up teams and playing tournaments with friends...the fielding in Neo's Baseball Stars is the wrong scale and sacrifices fundamentals for aesthetic "wow" factor...)

TANGENT: Naturally, driving/racing games constitute their own genre. I don't consider them to be part of "sports"...

BACK ON TOPIC: You will punch me, but I have had billion times more fun playing 8Man and Nam '75 and Magician Lord than any fighter.

Sorry.

I am a dinosaur stuck in the past.

[johnnykonami]

I hear you.

I was speaking in broad strokes: I can appreciate the *concept* of fighters, I have given them them a chance for 20+ years...but they will never be a something that *moves me* (if SFII and the legacy it spawned never existed, say, in an alternate universe, I would not shed a single tear).

I am actually much more willing to give certain sports games some love: golf + baseball, in particular, have worked their way into my heart. I love them. But that soccer (futbol) game in the NeoGeo at my laundromat was cruel, cruel torture. Baseball Stars on NeoGeo is actually not as gratifying as NES Baseball Stars (not kidding....I spent entire summers playing NES Baseball Stars, building up teams and playing tournaments with friends...the fielding in Neo's Baseball Stars is the wrong scale and sacrifices fundamentals for aesthetic "wow" factor...)

TANGENT: Naturally, driving/racing games constitute their own genre. I don't consider them to be part of "sports"...

BACK ON TOPIC: You will punch me, but I have had billion times more fun playing 8Man and Nam '75 and Magician Lord than any fighter.

Sorry.

I am a dinosaur stuck in the past.

Try Baseball Stars 2!  It won't be as deep as NES Baseball Stars but it definitely has a great vibe to it.  I also really like Eightman, anything with that 70's-80's anime vibe always catches my attention.  When I was a kid I hated Nam '75, and games like it (Cabal springs to mind.)  I would probably like it more now if I tried it again.  Magician Lord IS the Neo to me.  If I ever get a MVS (getting a house finally, could happen!) I will definitely have to track that one down for it.  Never had the pleasure of playing through it all the way, just as far as I could get on a handful of quarters.

[SignOfZeta]

What is meant my the "concept" of fighters? I ask because the only reason I like fighters is the execution. The concept...two people beating each others, is totally unappealing. I like seeing a single character with 400 frames of animation, and I like how they were a totally fair, strategically deep way of competing with friends or people you hate or whatever. I like how huge the sprites are, and the way you can come back from certain doom with nothing but huge skill. No genre gives this like 90s fighters do.

And even if you don't care about this, you'd think anyone would love Astra Superstars, which has none of it...

[esteban]

What is meant my the "concept" of fighters? I ask because the only reason I like fighters is the execution. The concept...two people beating each others, is totally unappealing. I like seeing a single character with 400 frames of animation, and I like how they were a totally fair, strategically deep way of competing with friends or people you hate or whatever. I like how huge the sprites are, and the way you can come back from certain doom with nothing but huge skill. No genre gives this like 90s fighters do.

And even if you don't care about this, you'd think anyone would love Astra Superstars, which has none of it...

I understand the concept and the appeal of fighting games, even though I *personally* do not find them as gratifying as NES Golf. It means that I am not unfairly condemning a genre because I have misunderstood its purpose. 

Its raison d'être.

I understand why this genre exists, and the strategies/nuances that a good game will provide.

BITD, nearly every friend and family member was obsessed with these games. My brother still is. I have enjoyed many things through him, vicariously, because he is so passionate about the genre... but he scratches his head when I ask him if we could play RC PRO AM instead.

[geise]

SNK was an Arcade developer first and console second.  Hell they really weren't a console developer at all.  In regards to pce, it was extremely popular in Japan.  It gave Sega and Nintendo a huge run for their money over there.  I'd say it was just as popular if not more so than the Neo in regards to consoles.