WOW - Cosmic Fantasy 2

[runinruder]

Personally, I consider the Playstation(1) the system for RPGs--traditional RPGs, at least.  The Duo crushes all other systems as far as action-RPGs go.

The SNES is the system for hilariously awful "special effects" and visual blunders.  Falling fat men, rotating space stations, flicker-ravaged lava men... the SNES has it all!

[nodtveidt]

Any time you have a special effect, there's always going to be someone to overuse it. I think more than one developer got overzealous with the special effects of the SNES and ended up churning out a ton of cheesy-looking games. Special effects are nice when used correctly (in moderation...). I've yet to find a PCE game that overused special effects (imagine if Jackie Chan used the silhouette trick constantly...ugh).

[runinruder]

Yeah, I had this discussion with someone just the other day, in fact.  Turbo/PCE/Duo games may not have been capable of the "technological wizardry" that games available on other machines of the era were, but they used their strengths optimally and discreetly.  The silhouettes in Jackie Chan are neat every time I see them, just as the scrolling effects in Shape Shifter's forest and Macross 2036's "crystal" planet level are beautiful.

On the other hand, lots of SNES games "showcase" so many examples of goofy, needless "effects" (frequently crippling the action in the process) that I just end up laughing at them or getting irritated and turning them off.

[grahf]

Wow runinrider, you really really hate snes. I will agree that the mode 7 type stuff is way overused, as well as the mosiac effect (going through a keyhole in mario world/poised in FFVI). The other graphics effects can be really useful. The best thing is the transparency. It really helps add atmosphere to games such as Super Metroid, Zelda (in the forest for example).

This kinda doesnt really have anything to do with Cosmic Fantasy 2 though does it .  On that note, I started a new game finally. I just got Annie in my party, but died trying to make it through the cave. I will say that its MUCH more fun with more than 1 person in your party. The battles arent so tedious anymore.

[SignOfZeta]

The anti-SNES thing here is pretty wierd...

I mean, if this was 1992 and we were all 12 and our parents decided we could only have one system for XMas, I would expect this sort of..."allegiance", or whatever the hell it is, but its much later, most of us are much older, and the systems are so cheap they are basically free now.

I love the PCE. I always have. I don't go to any other console specific forums other than Neo Geo Pocket. I was always the only guy in the  immediate geographical area with a "Turbo" system other than my brother, and like most of you guys I only bought EGM for the small mentionings of PCE releases from Japan. My NEC fandom is not in question.

That said, you guys talking smack about the SNES are out of your damn mind. The RPGs on the SNES are, for the most part, a lot different than the style with which PCE RPGs were made. Both systems were *excellent* for RPGs. Better than anything since. For the people that can't read Japanese the SNES is definitely the better option, although far too many good RPGs were left in Japan for both systems.

As for the special FX thing....

The SNES is the system for hilariously awful "special effects" and visual blunders. Falling fat men, rotating space stations, flicker-ravaged lava men... the SNES has it all!

I've played a lot of SNES titles and I can say I have no f*cking clue what you are even talking about. The SNES has many special FX tricks, we all know that, and they can be used very well. I fact I'd say that for the most part they were used very well. For example Macross: Scrambled valkyrie is loaded with SNES specific FX, and that game is just totally great from begining to end. The PCE Macross shooter from about that time, 2036, is also good in its own unique way. Its has a real story, and great new designs, voice acting, etc.

If you're some kind of video game equivalent of the Amish, then I guess you could argue that all of these fancy, new-fanged tricks are just the work of the devil, and don't really have anything to do with gameplay, but that's true of the SNES's eye candy as well as the long, load-happy cinema sections of PCE games. Furthermore, of the PCE had the kind of SFX that the SNES has (or any SFX to speak of...) they would be used just as often and you know it.

There are all sorts of bad game systems out there. The SNES isn't one of them, and if you think it is you need to pull your head out of your rabid fanboy ass and look around. You are only screwing the yourself by avoiding the SNES.

[GUTS]

SNES games for the most part are pretty sad, but there are a few good ones.  Obviously you haven't played many SNES games if you haven't seen the over use of the shit SNES special effects.  And for a guy who starts off comparing snes bashers to 12 year olds, you sure typed a lot for someone who is too old for console wars.

[FM-77]

A "few" good SNES games? There are many more high quality games on the SNES than on the PCE (or ANY other system, for that matter). No doubt about it.

[SignOfZeta]

SNES games for the most part are pretty sad, but there are a few good ones.  Obviously you haven't played many SNES games if you haven't seen the over use of the shit SNES special effects.

I'm pretty sure I've played all but 30-50 SNES games released world-wide. I think we just have a different idea of of what constitutes over use. I've played a lot of crap on SNES, but most of it was 3rd party American shit I don't count. "A few good games" is just....nuts. Its like saying Porsche has been know to make a few good cars.

And for a guy who starts off comparing snes bashers to 12 year olds, you sure typed a lot for someone who is too old for console wars.

Anyone that makes non-sensical statements about such things has the air of someone who is proud of the only choice they could have made. Twleve year olds have no money, usually only get one system per generation, and many times turn into huge advocates of that system for no reason other than the fact that that's the one they have...which is a lame reason. Its pretty much like patriotism (ie: stupid).

I was trying to level the playing field, to defuse what has become silly. Its pretty easy for some tool to say that Bonk's Revenge is a better game than Yoshi's Island, but it usually takes more typing to prove that that guy has the asthetic sense of a Chia Pet collector.

The SNES is one of the greatest systems ever, IMO the greatest system ever. If you feel otherwise perhaps you should have bought Uniracers, or Yoshi's Island instead of Mortal Kombat, and Charles Barcley's Shut Up and Jam.

If you want to talk about how much the N64, the greatest disapointment in gaming history, totally sucks, overuses its FX, etc then I'll join right in with you. That thing was terrible.

[SignOfZeta]

A "few" good SNES games? There are many more high quality games on the SNES than on the PCE (or ANY other system, for that matter). No doubt about it.

Well from a pure percentage standpoint, most games on most systems are shit. The PS probably has 40-50 good games, more than I'll ever really have time to play, but there are probably about 2000 PS releases, making the majority of the library total crap.

After all, Midway, Acclaim, etc all made SNES games, lots of them, and nearly all were junk.

The systems that avoid bloatware the best are usually ones with very small game libraries, and very little 3rd party support. The Neo Geo for example only has 2 or 3 total crap releases, but that's because the entire library is mostly either 1st party, or very very close 3rd party.

The Neo Geo Pocket from what I've seen only has one bad game (Dive Alert) and a bunch of Pachi-slot shit that doesn't even count, IMO.

The PCE has a pretty incredible quality ratio considering all the non-Hudson releases. PCE 3rd parties were the most original I can think of. Technos, and Naxat, those kind of companies. I miss that sort of development ethic.

[runinruder]

GUTS, I agree with you 100%.  There are a few really good games that I keep my SNES around for, but for the most part, it's a useless machine.  PCE Duo and Genesis both annihilate it.

[malducci]

I'll chime in with this-

 While I wasn't 12 when the snes came out in the US (15) and the effects were impressive for the first run on games. I had a GEN, Duo, and SNES systems. But it became apparent that the snes could so easily handle transparency layers, multiple BGs(up 4), and scaling/rotation that it just wasn't thrilling to see SNES do these effects anymore. It had an over saturation effect on me. I think this is what Nod is refering to. It's akin to watch the PS1 do the same effects and going, "wow!". The real special effect for the SNES was keeping it from slowing down and I'm serious when I say this. The only reason I beat Super EDF because one the weapons would cause slow down in the game by 70%.


 Ratio wise the snes had more crap that good, but the snes did have a good amount of great games. Off the top of my head: Actraiser, FFVI, FFIV, Contra, Zelda(very little FX but ver fun game), Chrono Trigger, Lagoon, UN Squadron, Super Ghouls and Ghost, Super Mario World, Mystical Ninja, Ys III(Better than the MD version), Castlevania IV, Cybernator.

 The more crap that came out for the SNES, the more I turned to import for the Duo. Genesis also follow this trend - Greendog, Verter Man(s), etc.

[FM-77]

I agree that there are many terrible SNES games, but there are many terrible games on every system (especially the PS1). The SNES was the biggest system on the market (by far!) and therefore it got a lot of games, so it is not surprising that there were many bad games released for it.

You can't compare game libraries by "ratio", because even if 99% of the SNES library sucks, that remaining 1% is still at least ten times bigger than the PCE's "good games" ratio.

However, both the PC Engine and the Mega Drive (especially the PC Engine) has games much worse than the worst SNES games. Games so bad that I just find it incredible that they actually got released.. or even developed! Look at "Basted" for example - it looks like someone's first attempt at making something in Basic. That game is just so insanely bad I can't express myself!    

Try playing Basted. Just for laughs, or possibly a heart attack. It is by far the worst game I have ever played. For any platform. Even Minesweeper looks better graphically than that game.

Also: when I got my PC Engine system, my first feeling was disappointment. I realized there were only like ten must-play games on the system (must-play, not decent which seems to what most "good" PC Engine games appear to be. Look at Cosmic Fantasy 2, for example). When I got my second SNES (last year), the first feeling I had was excitement: now I can play all those hundreds (exaggeration) of awesome SNES games again! Fantastic! (I had a similiar feeling when I finally got around to modding my Mega Drive so that I could play imported games.)

[runinruder]

Basted was ahead of its time.

It had one town and, essentially, one maze (only the one leading to the last boss is really any kind of "dungeon").  Yet, it had a heavy focus on plot and cinematics.  The cinemas were actually exceptional (the ones later in the game, that is--the ones early on were merely solid for the most part).  

In this respect, it was a parody of the story-heavy, gameplay-light RPGs that dominate the marketplace today--and, of course, it was released before modern RPGs were EVEN MADE.

Thanks to such forethought on behalf of Basted's designers, we can confidently say that the work they put in was worthwhile.  It served a purpose in the annals of gaming history.  It's something unique: a parody of what was yet to come.  

(Plus, the story is actually rather nice.)

Stuff like Zelda III, on the other hand, served no purpose and has no reason to still exist in this universe.

[nodtveidt]

Lots of people with lots of different opinions and ideas on what makes a great system. The key issue here is that you'll never be able to convince anyone otherwise...console loyalty is a religion in and of itself and like all religions, you cannot convince someone else that your idea is better than theirs.

An example: I found Zelda III to be one of the most fun games I've ever played. The storyline was crude and clichéd, Link looked like a drunken fat bastard, Zelda looked like a poorly-pixelled box of crackers, most of the enemies were lucky to have 3 frames per direction, the music was mostly forgettable, but the game was fun regardless and had tons of replay value...I still play it thru from time to time just for nostalgia's sake.

[FM-77]

Stuff like Zelda III, on the other hand, served no purpose and has no reason to still exist in this universe.

So that's why it is regarded as one of the best games in history, because it served no purpose? If you had actually played it instead of looking at screenshots (because it isn't that pretty), you'd know that it is very close to perfection for a 2D game. Zelda A Link to the Past is by far the most entertaining game I have ever played. The replay value is just incredible.