Author Topic: Always wondered...  (Read 1591 times)

BigusSchmuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3425
Always wondered...
« on: April 22, 2016, 01:22:26 PM »
Why didn't NEC just wait to release the Supergrafx here in the US instead of just releasing the Turbo? I mean aside of the localization and such there was only like 4 months between release dates? It couldn't have been that much more expensive to produce the Supergrafx here in the U.S and hell you could even had older pc engine games to fill in the void until more Supergrafx games were available. Just a weird thought...

GaijinD

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 90
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 03:49:04 PM »
Well, they'd already spent a year redesigning the PCE into the Turbo, so they'd have been throwing away that work and starting over. They'd also have to miss out on holiday sales for '89 and have given the Genesis an even bigger window to steal their thunder. There may also have been an element of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing. Maybe NEC Japan neglected to mention the Supergrafx to them?
Feel like a treasure game on a rainy day.

WoodyXP

  • Guest
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 04:33:11 PM »
Why didn't NEC just wait to release the Supergrafx here in the US instead of just releasing the Turbo? I mean aside of the localization and such there was only like 4 months between release dates? It couldn't have been that much more expensive to produce the Supergrafx here in the U.S and hell you could even had older pc engine games to fill in the void until more Supergrafx games were available. Just a weird thought...


NEC didn't give a damn about the US market.  They wrote the Turbografx off as "dead on arrival" before it even went on sale.

esteban

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24063
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 06:10:10 PM »
Why didn't NEC just wait to release the Supergrafx here in the US instead of just releasing the Turbo? I mean aside of the localization and such there was only like 4 months between release dates? It couldn't have been that much more expensive to produce the Supergrafx here in the U.S and hell you could even had older pc engine games to fill in the void until more Supergrafx games were available. Just a weird thought...

TG-16 was cheaper to produce...larger profit margins.
  |    | 

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 06:38:39 PM »
The SuperGrafx was cancelled before it even came out. It never had a bright future at any point. They only released it in Japan because in 1989 people would basically buy anything in Japan and being very obedient consumers they wouldn't get hella pissed when only five lame games get released for it. Their goals for the US market were completely different. I'm not sure what those goals were...but all of the premium products stayed in Japan with the US market being classified as cheap asses. This is a popular strategy still.

TheClash603

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4054
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2016, 07:19:01 AM »
This is actually interesting to think about anyway,  even if it had no chance of ever happening.  Had they come out with the more powerful system and had it caught on in a surprising way, perhaps the U.S. market demand could've sparked development.

When the NES was released the video game market was dead and the Genesis was the follow up to an unsuccessful system in the U.S. and both did well, so strange things did happen in our market before.  I like this What If scenario, even from just a pondering position.

elmer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2153
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2016, 09:17:23 AM »
The SuperGrafx was cancelled before it even came out.

May I ask where does that info come from? I've never seen that mentioned anywhere, before.

I know that the main PCE developers had little interest in the poor thing, together with and overly high release price ... leading to an early death ... but that's not quite the same thing.

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2016, 11:09:40 AM »
There is no official word of this, I never meant to imply the info existed somewhere publicly. Just look at the release schedule, the almost zero support from anyone, even Hudson. There was never any hope for the thing to catch on and stay that way. They obviously knew this before release but pooped it out anyway knowing people would buy it for the outrageous price they were asking. Keep in mind that Japan actually had video game magazines back then and extremely active fan communities. They probably caved to nerd pressure knowing they'd at least break even. I'm not sure it even sold that well. I remember heavily discounted SGX systems available new for a decade after it came out.

If they wanted it to stick around there would have been signs of it. Like...a second wave of software. Something cute. A CD game. Bomberman. None of this happened.

ccovell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2245
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2016, 12:43:39 PM »
"Cancelled" would imply that NEC had given up on it, but they were likely the ones that shoved the SGX down Hudson's throats and said "make something great for this!!!".

Hudson and others of course responded by reluctantly throwing one or two of their projects towards the SGX.  Duty fulfilled, they then ignored the system as was their desire all along.  I'd say only NEC Avenue (big shock, eh?) had any enthusiasm for pushing the SGX's hardware beyond what the PCE could do.

BigusSchmuck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3425
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2016, 01:50:26 PM »
It would have been interesting to say the least to see a U.S conversion of Ghouls N Ghosts for the Supergrafx side by side with the Genesis version. Hell, even though it existed on the Genesis, it would have been a better package than Keith Courage.

lukester

  • Guest
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2016, 04:21:04 PM »
Honestly, I feel the PC engine's biggest limitation was not the technology, but the hucard sizes. They were not designed to be cost effective for the amount of data stored.

The best pce games were mostly 4 mb, similar to nes games, while later snes and Genesis carts were 12 or 16 mb.

Part of the reason supergrafx failed right out of the gate, was because of larger hucards which meant larger prices. Over $100 for just an 8 mb game.

I'm sure some diehards like Black Tiger will tell me that the PC engine became the Duo, but certain genres like platformers were much more prominent on the hucard format. Certain big name companies like Taito and Namco didn't even support the cd console, except for a couple Darius ports and other things.

Personally, NEC and Hudson should have used the supergrafx development costs to engineer more efficient cards or carts, but that's just my opinion.

Gredler

  • Guest
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 04:24:46 PM »
I blame the censorship in JJ and Jeff. More farts = more units sold = more cocain at the corporate offices = more farts, and the process continues. They just did everything wrong, good thing they didn't release it as the super graphic 16² that'd been weeeeiiirrrdd.

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 05:48:03 PM »
Honestly, I feel the PC engine's biggest limitation was not the technology, but the hucard sizes. They were not designed to be cost effective for the amount of data stored.

The best pce games were mostly 4 mb, similar to nes games, while later snes and Genesis carts were 12 or 16 mb.

Part of the reason supergrafx failed right out of the gate, was because of larger hucards which meant larger prices. Over $100 for just an 8 mb game.

I'm sure some diehards like Black Tiger will tell me that the PC engine became the Duo, but certain genres like platformers were much more prominent on the hucard format. Certain big name companies like Taito and Namco didn't even support the cd console, except for a couple Darius ports and other things.

Personally, NEC and Hudson should have used the supergrafx development costs to engineer more efficient cards or carts, but that's just my opinion.

I think you're off on this one. Nintendo's SFC carts were normally priced at ¥9,800, far more than almost every PCE game. It didn't hurt sales. Seiken Densetsu 3 was $135 motherf*ckng dollars when PCE RPGs released that same year were $50.

Also, it's kinda apples to oranges. By the time 8mb SFC carts had become common place the PCE had moved almost exclusively to CD and the SGX was long dead. Just look at the release timeline guys, it's a very valuable testament to what was going on back then.

bob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4910
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2016, 01:29:21 AM »
so far, a lot of this conversation is looking at video games in a vacuum within the walls of NEC.
Video games were a small slice of NECs holdings overall.  A few factors I'm sure play into the history of the supergrafx.  First off, USA was still reeling from Black Monday (1987), so releasing any pricey electronic was going to be tough in 1989, especially a marginal upgrade to an existing console.  Yes Gameboy succeeded, but it was exponentially different, and $89 at launch was a friendly Christmas price to pay.  But this is a small factor overall.  In 1989, Japan was in the midst of their own equity/capital market crash which I am sure shifted focus for NEC.  The sharp fall of the Yen, coupled with NEC losing major market share in the PC space were probably bigger factors to NEC shifting resources to it's core businesses.  It took Japan almost a decade to get out of the bank crisis overall, so it's no surprise in the early 90's that NEC and Hudson offloaded most of the work to TTI which essentially was a glorified licensing deal.  Frankly it was smart since a major component of the JP stock market crash was centered around real estate.  It was becoming less and less profitable to utilize square footage for a business unit that wasn't producing the capital that could be made in other electronic areas.  Just saying, I think many bigger factors were playing into the supergrafx fate rather than nerd pressure and cart prices.
However, Zeta almost has a point, in 1989, Japan consumers were spending at high rate because of the easy access to money.  Typically, Japanese citizens were known as frugal savers.  This was good for the banks.  But sometime in the late 80's, this mindset shifted to more money being put into investments.  To recapture revenue, banks were forced to start lending at an alarming rate.  They were offering loans at 2x, 3x, 4x the value of a borrowers collateral (typically homes).  Most of that money was being funneled into the capital markets by the borrowers.  Stocks started to fall, and banks weren't getting paid back.  This lead to home prices and real estate value to fall sharply.  Sound familiar?  We could have learned something about this in 2008.  Problem is, most of the people involved in that cycle were already retired and record keeping wasn't what it is today.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2016, 01:34:56 AM by gynt »

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Always wondered...
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2016, 02:48:36 AM »
Honestly, I feel the PC engine's biggest limitation was not the technology, but the hucard sizes. They were not designed to be cost effective for the amount of data stored.

The best pce games were mostly 4 mb, similar to nes games, while later snes and Genesis carts were 12 or 16 mb.

Part of the reason supergrafx failed right out of the gate, was because of larger hucards which meant larger prices. Over $100 for just an 8 mb game.

I'm sure some diehards like Black Tiger will tell me that the PC engine became the Duo, but certain genres like platformers were much more prominent on the hucard format. Certain big name companies like Taito and Namco didn't even support the cd console, except for a couple Darius ports and other things.

Personally, NEC and Hudson should have used the supergrafx development costs to engineer more efficient cards or carts, but that's just my opinion.

They did engineer more cost effective cards, they're called CDs.

Namcot and Taito were not major PC Engine publishers and did not put much effort into their PCE games. Taito did not make all of the games you think they did on any format. It was common that generation for publishers to license the games of other companies to port to consoles.

The Darius games, like that other CD Taito game Rainbow Islands, were all done by NEC Ave. Sega and Capcom did not make PCE games either.

It's been generally agreed upon since these games were current, that the success and publishing costs of CD games is what limited HuCard sizes. Log before the Duo/SCD format. Otherwise, why are there so many CD2 games? Why bother making a HuCard any bigger when you could maje 2 CD games for the same cist and they'd each sell better than that HuCard?

The SFC has far fewer shooters than MD & PCE. The MD has far fewer RPGs than PCE & SFC. The SFC has far fewer mature/adult games than MD & SFC. Are these just format issues? Tokimeki Memorial made it to SFC, why not Snatcher?

Maybe it's just not that simple and each console was supported and catering to different audiences. If platformers sold better than RPGs and shooters on PCE, we'd probably have seen more of them. Just as North America didn't get many sim or RPG games back then, because there wasn't enough of a market for them. Not because they weren't delivered on 8-track cassettes.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum