UperGrafx PC Engine 720p DVI Widget

[soop]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

[Gypsy]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

LOL yeah pretty much.

[majors]

Looking forward to the Retro Roundtable podcast to hear all the dramamas on this with multiple voices.

[Johnpv]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

I will 3rd this.

[NightWolve]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

I will 3rd this.

Hahaha!!!! Well, I can't argue otherwise... Not just the over modding, I was also turned off by NeoSD being thin-skinned about this Japanese competitor product right here.

My post was deleted to prevent other PCE fans from finding out about UperGrafx in his thread when somebody asked about digital HDMI output.. I can understand arguments for the protectionism, but I was a little surprised they wanted to quickly squash any compare/contrast detour for those hoping for HDMI options some day... Way too sensitive for me.

If I'm gonna shill, it's gonna be for ALL PCE fans to know all options on the table before spending cash and not just help him maximize sales for a video analog-only output model. You can find his post to me, how defensive he got, dismissing this device as a "dream" and boasting how much better his is, etc.

For me, I'm more excited about a HDMI model and it tripling the resolution to 720p. I've thrown out or donated to friends most of my old CRT boob tubes. I'm still keeping my 32" Panasonic with YPbPr, but I'm very happy with LG 4K panels, love what they're doing, and I think this device is better future-proofing for US gamers.

SSD3 didn't go for that final touch to supply YPbPr/Component output for most US TV sets, it's geared to Europe in the RGB regard. Even then, a % of YPbPr TV sets need you to double the resolution to 480p or it won't work and you'll have to switch down to crappy Composite (they always still take 240p in Composite jack).

Anyway, they're both great products and I look forward to seeing how much these teams advance. Just making my preference known.

[Necromancer]

I'd also want HDMI.  While my current TV has inputs for pretty much anything, many new TVs have nothing but HDMI.

Them deleting your post sadly doesn't surprise me.  It'd be one thing if you went on and on about how awesome upergrafx is and how the SSD3 sucks, but just one post in response to someone asking about HDMI?  That's dumb.  Nobody should fear competition, especially not when your product is better in most ways: cheaper, built in arcade card, and plays roms.

[CZroe]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

I will 3rd this.

Hahaha!!!! Well, I can't argue otherwise... Not just the over modding, I was also turned off by NeoSD being thin-skinned about this Japanese competitor product right here.

My post was deleted to prevent other PCE fans from finding out about UperGrafx in his thread when somebody asked about digital HDMI output.. I can understand arguments for the protectionism, but I was a little surprised they wanted to quickly squash any compare/contrast detour for those hoping for HDMI options some day... Way too sensitive for me.

If I'm gonna shill, it's gonna be for ALL PCE fans to know all options on the table before spending cash and not just help him maximize sales for a video analog-only output model. You can find his post to me, how defensive he got, dismissing this device as a "dream" and boasting how much better his is, etc.

For me, I'm more excited about a HDMI model and it tripling the resolution to 720p. I've thrown out or donated to friends most of my old CRT boob tubes. I'm still keeping my 32" Panasonic with YPbPr, but I'm very happy with LG 4K panels, love what they're doing, and I think this device is better future-proofing for US gamers.

SSD3 didn't go for that final touch to supply YPbPr/Component output for most US TV sets, it's geared to Europe in the RGB regard. Even then, a % of YPbPr TV sets need you to double the resolution to 480p or it won't work and you'll have to switch down to crappy Composite (they always still take 240p in Composite jack).

Anyway, they're both great products and I look forward to seeing how much these teams advance. Just making my preference known.

Thanks. After I stumbled on their Japanese page and noticed this back in December I’ve been trying to spread the word. People need to know that there is a video purist option!

FWIW, 720p will integer-scale to 4K. If you disable your TV’s image processing (overscan simulation, motion interpolation, etc) you should get perfectly sharp pixels with no in-betweeners!

I’ve been doing Hi-Def NES and UltraHDMI installs and 720p is the recommended setting for 4K televisions.

[turboswimbz]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

I will 3rd this.

Hahaha!!!! Well, I can't argue otherwise... Not just the over modding, I was also turned off by NeoSD being thin-skinned about this Japanese competitor product right here.

My post was deleted to prevent other PCE fans from finding out about UperGrafx in his thread when somebody asked about digital HDMI output.. I can understand arguments for the protectionism, but I was a little surprised they wanted to quickly squash any compare/contrast detour for those hoping for HDMI options some day... Way too sensitive for me.

If I'm gonna shill, it's gonna be for ALL PCE fans to know all options on the table before spending cash and not just help him maximize sales for a video analog-only output model. You can find his post to me, how defensive he got, dismissing this device as a "dream" and boasting how much better his is, etc.

For me, I'm more excited about a HDMI model and it tripling the resolution to 720p. I've thrown out or donated to friends most of my old CRT boob tubes. I'm still keeping my 32" Panasonic with YPbPr, but I'm very happy with LG 4K panels, love what they're doing, and I think this device is better future-proofing for US gamers.

SSD3 didn't go for that final touch to supply YPbPr/Component output for most US TV sets, it's geared to Europe in the RGB regard. Even then, a % of YPbPr TV sets need you to double the resolution to 480p or it won't work and you'll have to switch down to crappy Composite (they always still take 240p in Composite jack).

Anyway, they're both great products and I look forward to seeing how much these teams advance. Just making my preference known.

Thanks. After I stumbled on their Japanese page and noticed this back in December I’ve been trying to spread the word. People need to know that there is a video purist option!

FWIW, 720p will integer-scale to 4K. If you disable your TV’s image processing (overscan simulation, motion interpolation, etc) you should get perfectly sharp pixels with no in-betweeners!

I’ve been doing Hi-Def NES and UltraHDMI installs and 720p is the recommended setting for 4K televisions.

Can you point me to a good place where I can see the 720P/4k with no in-betweeners. I've been looking for different options for my systems.

[Trenton_net]

SSD3 didn't go for that final touch to supply YPbPr/Component output for most US TV sets, it's geared to Europe in the RGB regard. Even then, a % of YPbPr TV sets need you to double the resolution to 480p or it won't work and you'll have to switch down to crappy Composite (they always still take 240p in Composite jack).

Anyway, they're both great products and I look forward to seeing how much these teams advance. Just making my preference known.

I agree, it would have been nice if they went the extra mile. I suspect that most people who use RGB mods have upscalers already, so it won't be as bad a hit to them.

In regards to the UperGrafx, it looks like an interesting device but I feel (in my opinion) that it's still kind of premature. I'm not sure if they were able to address the frame rate issues (judder) and from what I read about version 2, it seems like preparing CD-ROM games is quite involved. Specifically because they decided to cut corners on it's implementation (Ie. USB port treated like a serial port, SD card written RAW without file system, proprietary tool to write CD-ROM images to SD card, Odd CD-ROM image support, etc.

[Johnpv]

FWIW, 720p will integer-scale to 4K. If you disable your TV’s image processing (overscan simulation, motion interpolation, etc) you should get perfectly sharp pixels with no in-betweeners!

I’ve been doing Hi-Def NES and UltraHDMI installs and 720p is the recommended setting for 4K televisions.

If you're using scanlines, then yeah 720p with better scanlines would be the way to go, but if you're not using scanlines I would say 1080p.  1080p is a 2x integer scale to 4k theoretically it should result in less time processing the image from 720p but that will probably depend from set to set.

One of the nice things about 4k sets is that both 720p and 1080 are integer scales to it.  (1280 x 720 x 3 =  3,840 x 2,160 and 1920 x 1080 x 2 = 3,840 x 2,160)

Plus for those 4k sets that soften the image when they upscale them, you should see less of a softening when going from 1080p vs 720p. 


For those wanting component out of the SD3 thing, the HDRetrovision Genesis model 2 cables will do the trick. 

[VmprHntrD]

Reading back a few days I see the PR disaster that is the NG forum brought up and they really do suck and take it too far taking digs at innocent new users.

Nightwolve is right, those a$$holes do erase and doctor plenty of stuff.  I had no idea about the uppergrafx due to those ass clowns erasing that post.  I only learned about it from a space like this, a neutral party that won't protect a fragile baby of a developer and an already destroyed rep about a shady board.  They also love to rip the hell out of that darksoft neo geo kit too considering the creator of that device got into a fight with them over their garbage some years ago too I read.  Not that he's without blame making up stories to sell his unfinished kit either.  At least the Japanese guy with his kit seems to be on the level.

I was going to buy that TO device due to the CD ability along with the memory card, but detested the stock video output.  Uppergrafx though doesn't handle the everdrive end of things, but it does do the rest with HDMI.  I'm right on the fence now of just waiting it out and seeing how things progress while picking up an everdrive instead.  I've gone as far as bulletproofing another of my devices to HDMI and have another setup when I can get the kit to do so.  It just makes more sense as CRT is dead and component/composite more or less is too.

[CZroe]

Well I certainly think that partnering with the NeoGeo forums is a PR disaster.

I will 3rd this.

Hahaha!!!! Well, I can't argue otherwise... Not just the over modding, I was also turned off by NeoSD being thin-skinned about this Japanese competitor product right here.

My post was deleted to prevent other PCE fans from finding out about UperGrafx in his thread when somebody asked about digital HDMI output.. I can understand arguments for the protectionism, but I was a little surprised they wanted to quickly squash any compare/contrast detour for those hoping for HDMI options some day... Way too sensitive for me.

If I'm gonna shill, it's gonna be for ALL PCE fans to know all options on the table before spending cash and not just help him maximize sales for a video analog-only output model. You can find his post to me, how defensive he got, dismissing this device as a "dream" and boasting how much better his is, etc.

For me, I'm more excited about a HDMI model and it tripling the resolution to 720p. I've thrown out or donated to friends most of my old CRT boob tubes. I'm still keeping my 32" Panasonic with YPbPr, but I'm very happy with LG 4K panels, love what they're doing, and I think this device is better future-proofing for US gamers.

SSD3 didn't go for that final touch to supply YPbPr/Component output for most US TV sets, it's geared to Europe in the RGB regard. Even then, a % of YPbPr TV sets need you to double the resolution to 480p or it won't work and you'll have to switch down to crappy Composite (they always still take 240p in Composite jack).

Anyway, they're both great products and I look forward to seeing how much these teams advance. Just making my preference known.

Thanks. After I stumbled on their Japanese page and noticed this back in December I’ve been trying to spread the word. People need to know that there is a video purist option!

FWIW, 720p will integer-scale to 4K. If you disable your TV’s image processing (overscan simulation, motion interpolation, etc) you should get perfectly sharp pixels with no in-betweeners!

I’ve been doing Hi-Def NES and UltraHDMI installs and 720p is the recommended setting for 4K televisions.

Can you point me to a good place where I can see the 720P/4k with no in-betweeners. I've been looking for different options for my systems.

I don’t have a 4K set but I walked someone through this with a Hi-Def NES as he exchanged close-ups of his display via email I’ll see if I can dig those up.

FWIW, 720p will integer-scale to 4K. If you disable your TV’s image processing (overscan simulation, motion interpolation, etc) you should get perfectly sharp pixels with no in-betweeners!

I’ve been doing Hi-Def NES and UltraHDMI installs and 720p is the recommended setting for 4K televisions.

If you're using scanlines, then yeah 720p with better scanlines would be the way to go, but if you're not using scanlines I would say 1080p.  1080p is a 2x integer scale to 4k theoretically it should result in less time processing the image from 720p but that will probably depend from set to set.

One of the nice things about 4k sets is that both 720p and 1080 are integer scales to it.  (1280 x 720 x 3 =  3,840 x 2,160 and 1920 x 1080 x 2 = 3,840 x 2,160)

Plus for those 4k sets that soften the image when they upscale them, you should see less of a softening when going from 1080p vs 720p. 


For those wanting component out of the SD3 thing, the HDRetrovision Genesis model 2 cables will do the trick.

The problem is that 1080p is a 4.5x (non-integer) scale of 240p. This will either result in rows of blended pixels or alternate rows being thicker than the others. It’s the same reason scanlines look bad on 1080p: varying thickness means alternating scanline density. A 5x integer scale of 240p is perfect because it results in 1200p (these displays exist) or cropped 1080p. Don’t worry about missing 120 lines because that only translates to 24px of the original 240p image, 12px top and bottom (similar to original CRT overscan). The problem with 5x is that many similar devices don’t support it, like Hi-Def NES, for example. Even if it does support it, it may produce 1200p which will not scale perfectly to 4K.

The extra time it takes to scale with a non-integer scale is spent creating blended/interpolated detail instead of just doubling, tripling, quadrupling, etc. It has to assemble, create, and output entire frames at a time to do that which means it needs to buffer. When integer scaling it’s possible to duplicate pixels and line-double on the fly without buffering frames. A proper scaling algorithm should scale 720p to 4K with no more delay than 1080p since you’re literally just multiplying by 3 instead of 4 with the same frame rate. If the 4K set is cropping the image slightly as most do without digging through hidden/obfuscated settings, you aren’t getting an integer scale anyway.

HD Retrovision cables will do nicely for the revised SSDSys3, assuming they actually fix the RGB issues that prompted the recall. They seem to resent anyone who even cares about it though, and they already got it wrong once despite publicly expressed concerns before launch, so I wouldn’t assume.

[pceslayer]

Does anyone know what the menu system looks like for the UperGrafx UGX-02? I'm curious as how it compares to the Super SD System 3.

I guess you'd also need a good DVI & RCA to HDMI converter box for UGX-02 to work properly with TV's that don't have RCA in.

[broken]

I was under the impression there isn’t a menu system.

[CZroe]

I was under the impression there isn’t a menu system.

Unless it regressed from the UGX-01, there is, but I have no idea what it’s like. I suggest exploring their website with Google Translate.

Hopefully it’s better than the UGX-01’s 2016 menu:

(17:15)

Of course, that menu was for use as a video-only device.