Author Topic: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release  (Read 3055 times)

mickcris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2016, 11:56:22 AM »
I find this argument a bit silly.  Everybody seems to love turbokon's new bootlegs but hates tobias'.  The same argument can be had with those.  You could just put the game on an everdrive instead of buying a "repro" hucard.

People aren't mad just because he's selling boots, expensive or not.  It's the lies about them being legitimate and that he's selling them nearly at cost, and the fact that he's driving translators away by using their translations without credit, remuneration, permission, or even offering a free copy as a thank-you (though he's got plenty of freebies to send to youtube promoters).

In short, people don't like him because he's a profiteering a$$hole with little regard for the community.  If you can't understand the difference between him and people like Turbokon, Sparky, etc., then you're the one being silly and/or an intentionally ignorant ostrich with your head in the sand.

If someone wants to pay a bit extra for box art and such, I dont see a problem with it.  I think its dumb, but some people like that.  Yeah, the profit margin is probably a lot higher on Tobias' boots, as they are CDs and cost a bit more, but what is the acceptable profit margin before everyone starts complaining?

A cd with regular jewel case runs about $2 each to have made, whereas he's selling them for $30-40 each.  Even factoring in the additional costs of his lame packaging, gimmick coins, and other junk, a profit margin of 90% is well beyond 'a bit extra'.

I am in no way defending Tobias' actions.  Everyone here just seemed to be complaining about the price in this thread.  I know the history behind what he did and I dont think it right.
I just dont see the need for the CD bootlegs or hu card ones.  They are just something pretty people want to put on a shelf.  I have no problem with that either if that is what people want to do.  Price is subjective also.  Some people obviously dont care what they pay for things.

Astronaut_79

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2016, 11:56:54 AM »
This new value-priced edition bootleg of Dracula X is still half the price of the real deal. In the meantime, this crap is happening: http://m.ebay.com/itm/PC-Engine-Dracula-X-Energy-Drink-Limited-Edition-New-Akumajo-Memories-/262394039564?nav=SEARCH



This too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PC-Engine-Turbografx-2-CD-Akumajo-Dracula-X-Castlevania-Rondo-of-Blood-Reprint-/272210917979?hash=item3f6108fa5b:g:6boAAOSwKtlWqUVx

Cheapest price on eBay is $250+ for the "deluxe" edition. I see them sell for $235-$260. A used complete one went for $150 a little while ago.

At $70, it's almost 1/3 of what a complete original goes for nowadays. $200+ is very common.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 11:58:28 AM by Astronaut_79 »
What a horrible night to have a curse...

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2016, 12:14:19 PM »
Everybody seems to love turbokon's new bootlegs but hates tobias'.

That's intentionally subtracting context/history away in defense of Tobias. Turbokon never went on eBay, pretended he had some lost batch of Sapphire CDs, and forged a document purported to be by Hudson Soft to further backup this lying/fraud, etc. Tobias did, and down the road in the aftermath this caused thousands of dollars in damage to the public who got tricked into thinking those Sapphires were real and paid the crazy big-spending rates you see versus what bootlegs normally go for. Stores thought they had real copies, sold the copies to buyers, only for the buyer to discover they got sealed bootlegs, then having to dispute it all with the store/seller thinking the buyer is lying, etc. You get the idea of the mess that the guy caused...

Comparing him to team turbokon/jodi or other bootleggers is unjust... There are no forged Hudson documents, lies, and using fan translated works without permission/inclusion, etc. as there is with Tobias' history. His Dracula X bootleg objectively is a thing of beauty, no denying that, I'd want one myself, but he catches hate/flak for all the shit he pulled in the past! People that got burned by him who bought his fake Sapphires wanted to see him get shut down, not come back bigger than ever, and even see him celebrated around Youtube gamer channels as a "hero" who does it "for the love of it."

So, that's the issue... You can do bootlegs right/ethically to some degree, there's no harm/no foul when the games reasonably fall under abandonware/de facto public domain, but Tobias has a history of issues, and that's why he's hated more so than it just being plain general opposition to bootlegs (which may be true for some people here, NOT ALL!).

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2016, 12:21:23 PM »
If you actually look at what it costs to press a CD in quantities of at least a few thousand you'll find that it isn't even $7 let alone $70. Tobias is making a margin Mercedes or Walmart would kill for, not to mention Konami. It's an outright ripoff. Nobody who ACTUALLY MAKES SHIT makes this kind of profit. In the business world %10 is considered really good. Apple is lucky if they break %40 and they need armies of wage slaves and massive economies of scale to do it. Tobias is hitting at %600-700 at least. His costs? Owning an original Dracula X, which since he's not a noob he probably paid max $80 for because that's what it cost from its release until about two years ago.

Noob collectard gamers don't know this or really much of anything about games or how they are made though, apparently. They just buy shit. I'd say maybe only American anime fans are slightly worse at demanding all sorts of shit from products while often having little to no skills creativity or technical knowledge of how the shit gets made. It's weird. You'd think if they liked the stuff they'd be more interested in what it actually IS. Earlier generations of fans usually were (i.e. Gainax) and this place is absolutely crawling with coders, modders, hackers, remixers, translators, and people who will beat or out score almost anyone in at least one game...but apparently there's been some serious fan muscle atrophy in recent years in the outside world because these kids can't seem do anything but take pride in inflating prices.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 12:25:53 PM by SignOfZeta »

Otaking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2288
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2016, 12:27:12 PM »
Akuma-JO DraCrystala seX - Charge no Rondong

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2016, 12:33:38 PM »
Good shtick with that. ;)

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2016, 12:34:10 PM »

At $70, it's almost 1/3 of what a complete original goes for nowadays. $200+ is very common.

Top end selling prices are for flippers. Game buyers should be more interested in the fact that Drac X regularly sells for $160 on eBay. People not understanding the difference between asking and selling prices or how to shop in general is drives high end price spikes and raising prices in general.

Even when Tobias' clueless edition was still available directly from PCEWorks, crooks were listing it on eBay for $700 as the long lost limited edition variant or unreleased TTi prototype. Because they know how uninformed and gullible most collectards are.

So there's now multiple tiers of gouging happening, but instead of naturally driving down prices of the real Dracula X, too many idiots are now looking at it as being worth more, since a bootleg "sells" for so much.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

mickcris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 754
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2016, 12:35:57 PM »
I get it.  There are strong opinions here about what is acceptable to pirate and what is not.  It's all still piracy whether or not the company or person's intellectual property cares or knows you are selling it.  But I don't really care if people want to pirate things.

Otaking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2288
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2016, 01:07:54 PM »
AkumaJelq Drakickboxula Xax - Car no Porto

seieienbu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1992
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2016, 01:18:29 PM »
I get it.  There are strong opinions here about what is acceptable to pirate and what is not.  It's all still piracy whether or not the company or person's intellectual property cares or knows you are selling it.  But I don't really care if people want to pirate things.

I don't care that Tobias wants to make money pirating old games.  I only care that he stole recent work from active community members and in the past lied about Sapphire reproductions.  It's not the mere fact that he was pirating and profiteering, it's how he went about it that gets my ire up.

Yeah, I think my view of things is at least a bit hypocritical; (if you're willing to steal from Hudson/etc then what's different about stealing from Nightwolve, Bonknuts, or Tru?  However, I can see a clear line where on one side you're either profiting on people's work who are still invested (or perhaps even making an accessory to piracy/etc without their consent) and on the other you have people who Aren't doing that.

If a bootlegger showed up out of nowhere and first asked permission from active community members before publishing his wares, offered up a reasonable percentage of profits, and finally was willing to Not sell the games if the guy didn't want them sold then I think he would probably be lauded as doing a great service.  The difference between him and Tobias is the history that Tobias has of being an utter scumbag in the PC Engine community.
Current want list:  Bomberman 93

Astronaut_79

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2016, 01:24:54 PM »
Top end selling prices are for flippers. Game buyers should be more interested in the fact that Drac X regularly sells for $160 on eBay. People not understanding the difference between asking and selling prices or how to shop in general is drives high end price spikes and raising prices in general.

Even when Tobias' clueless edition was still available directly from PCEWorks, crooks were listing it on eBay for $700 as the long lost limited edition variant or unreleased TTi prototype. Because they know how uninformed and gullible most collectards are.

So there's now multiple tiers of gouging happening, but instead of naturally driving down prices of the real Dracula X, too many idiots are now looking at it as being worth more, since a bootleg "sells" for so much.

I agree completely. I know that a small number of copies sell for $160-$170, but the majority of them are $180+ and well into the mid, and even high, $200's. Just look at what has happened to the SNES Dracula X, a game that really wasn't that good (even if you have never played Rondo). On average, it'll run you close to $400 for a good condition CIB. Several have gone for close to, or above, $500. Not new, not sealed. Cart only repros. are selling for $55 on average. It's insane! But people pay it, and thus, it perpetuates.

I certainly did not pay $200 for my copy of the PCE Drac, or anywhere near $400 for my SNES one. I thought the repros. would cause prices to dip as well, but demand continues to increase. The market is there and apparently no shortage of fools with too much money. I guess you could say the same for me and my $70 bootleg though.
What a horrible night to have a curse...

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2016, 01:27:40 PM »
AkumaJelq Drakickboxula Xax - Car no Porto
All right, well, first 2 were good, but you jumped the shark with this one. ;)

SignOfZeta

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8497
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2016, 01:29:43 PM »
I get it.  There are strong opinions here about what is acceptable to pirate and what is not.  It's all still piracy whether or not the company or person's intellectual property cares or knows you are selling it.  But I don't really care if people want to pirate things.


I don't think you read any of this. Nobody is debating piracy as a thing.

NightWolve

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5277
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2016, 01:46:01 PM »
Tobias' "semi-seal of approval" (almost got lost with no Wayback backup) direct from Hudson Soft after "sending" them a copy from his "long lost" batch of Sapphire CDs that he discovered in the hopes of achieving some form of "verification" from the company themselves... After "inspecting" the copy he sent to them (which they were kind enough to return, Tobias no doubt paid for return shipping), this is how they responded:



He was setting up a cover story about the slight ink imperfections of his bootlegs, floating a story about imperfect copies that were officially published/released but then recalled and that this was what he was now in possession of to sell, yadda yadda, you get the idea.

I call it all: "Sapphire-Gate" :)
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 01:30:46 PM by NightWolve »

Astronaut_79

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: PCE Works- Dracula X - Standard Edition - New Release
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2016, 02:01:37 PM »
"and they cannot see anything weird about it." Very official! :lol:
What a horrible night to have a curse...