Shooters: Hu vs CD

[spenoza]

I don't think ANY of the 16-bit ports of Raiden are particularly outstanding shooters, Super Raiden included, so I would probably not include it  : )

You are crazy!

Even if you don't like Raiden, you cannot deny how awesome the PCE port is.

I played Raiden in the arcade all the time.

The TG-16 version did not feel like a cheap, inferior joke.

It was a very competent downgrade, sure, but perfectly respectable.

Oh, I think Raiden is an awesome game, but IMO the gameplay alone isn't quite enough for me. I need the full graphics and audio package to really enjoy it. It it one of those games that I think fundamentally suffers from the necessary downgrade that results from porting to 16-bit systems. I feel this way because I think Raiden is one of the proto-precursors of danmaku shooters. Pretty tight hitbox and bullet patterns that can get pretty heavy at times (for the era, anyway). It relies on being able to put a lot of pretty stuff on the screen and make you sort it out. And because the game is dodge and bullet heavy, with only two variants of each type of weapon, the mechanics end up being pretty simple. Shoot, dodge, bomb. I think the PCE port is the best 16-bit port, but I think that's still not good enough.

[Black Tiger]

The PC Engine versions of Raiden are best because it's the only hardware that is able to put a lot of pretty stuff on the screen and make you sort it out. The Genesis version scrolls painfully slow and has 2 - 4 times fewer enemies flying at you than the PCE version. A Black Falcon loves to brag about how the SNES version is the only 16-bit port to feature co-op play. What he doesn't ever tell you is that it throws 2 - 4 times fewer enemies at you than the Genesis version. So you literally often face a single enemy at times when the PCE version throws 8+ at a time and 20+ will come thriw within the span of that single enemy on SNES. To the Genesis' version's credit, it does look to be tossing around about as much as the arcade.

I don't own the arcade version of Raiden and haven't fooled around with the setting in emulators. So maybe every arcade play video I've seen just had the difficulty set to zero?

[geise]

For Hu I would add Override to that list.  Yeah it's a lot more "simplistic" of a shooter but it is a very easy pick up and play game.  It has enjoyable tunes and a decent weapon system.  It's a little easy, but a very fun game.

For CD I feel Psychic Storm and Hellfire S needs to be on that list.  I guess I'm in the minority with those games, but they are shooters I find myself always going back to and playing. Hellfire S especially.

[Black Tiger]

I love Psychic Storm and it has that epic feel to it with the transformations, special effects, crazy giant bosses and cinematics.

I don't really like Hellfire or Zero Wing in any form.

[Bonknuts]

I love Psychic Storm too (play it quite a bit), but I don't think it's top tier (maybe border line). It's up there though. I wish Psychic Storm had come out here (it was listed as such).

[SavagePencil]

I would argue that Image Fight merits inclusion on the list.  I've never played the sequel, however.

[Black Tiger]

RAIDEN COMPARISON


Time counted from appearance of 1st enemy until last enemy before pre-boss music kicks in:

PC ENGINE: 1:34 -default difficulty
ARCADE: 2:00 -HARD difficulty
GENESIS: 2:34 -PRO difficulty (harder than HARD)
SNES: 1:12 -default difficulty


SNES version wasn't moving super fast and included some slowdown. Appears to have less length.

Confirmed that one of the GENESIS videos I watched was NTSC and not PAL. The GENESIS version scrolls slowly, which should allow more opportunities for waves of enemies, but it's both slower and less populated.

PC ENGINE version measured was the HuCard and not Super Raiden.




Number of enemies within the period measured above:

PC ENGINE: 170
ARCADE: 89
GENESIS: 89
SNES: 62


Likely counted extra for SNES, since the playthrough used a powerful weapon which killed many enemies before I could distinguish them from crates/medals. Counted the sounds either way.

I've read several times that the SNES version only runs at 30fps. I can't say for sure, but it sure looks like it in a 60fps video I watched.

Likely counted fewer than PC ENGINE actually features, because it is so hard to keep up with the constant barrage of enemies filling the screen.

PC ENGINE Raiden still includes the shadow sprites from the ARCADE version! It appears from videos and screenshots that the GENESIS and SNES versions do not include the extra shadows.

PC ENGINE version handles all of this and still uses sprites for the score/lives/bombs HUD, while the SNES and GENESIS versions put that stuff on a tile layer to try to cut down on sprites even further.








Between the enemies that you can see just died and the ones still flying around the screen, this random scene from the PC ENGINE version alone features 17% of the total number of pre-boss enemies in the SNES version and 19% of the total number of enemies found in the GENESIS and ARCADE versions. Literally a single screen from the PC ENGINE version.




In comparisons on various forums and in comments on videos that both attract the best and worst kinds of commentators, you still see console war enthusiasts describe the GENESIS version as "a little blander color, but more of everything" or how "it's the only port that isn't stretched". Obviously that play area window isn't 224 x 256, so no matter what it isn't going to be the arcade perspective and detail at home. If you actually look at the GENESIS version re-sized to 4:3 perspective and compare it to the arcade at 3:4, it's still distorted. Some ways better and some ways worse than the PC ENGINE version. Both the GENESIS and PC ENGINE versions re-proportioned and/or re-drew certain assets to make them look better on a TV screen.


Like too many 16-bit comparisons or casual comments about single versions, most people just talk out their ass and can't even tell what is or isn't going on in gameplay videos or even when they play the games themselves.




Anyhow, if you like action and intensity in shooters and appreciate only-in-the-arcade far-beyond-the-arcade level of sprite pushing, then the PC ENGINE versions are the only ones to play.

[exodus]

When it comes to raiden, the jaguar port is real smooth!

[SignOfZeta]

I agree that all these early ports suffer so much visually that I'd rather just play something else. Raiden is wonderful looking in the arcade but it's not all that amazingly unique as a shooter so when the graphics take a hit the game suffers as a whole for me.

I also agree that the Jag version was a huge step up but then the PS version came out which I seem to remember being super good.

[esteban]

DAMN.

B_T's post is Le Truth.

I love how methodical he is (he used to do stuff like this all the time )

ALL HAIL PCE RAIDEN

I agree that all these early ports suffer so much visually that I'd rather just play something else. Raiden is wonderful looking in the arcade but it's not all that amazingly unique as a shooter so when the graphics take a hit the game suffers as a whole for me.

I also agree that the Jag version was a huge step up but then the PS version came out which I seem to remember being super good.

I have the PlayStation Raiden. I also played Raiden in the arcade tons (back in the day).

PCE version is still awesome. See B_T's post.

[Bonknuts]

B_T you need to do a webpage on this!

[spenoza]

RAIDEN COMPARISON

All of that is interesting and informative, but doesn't change the fact that I don't like the way the PCE version looks, sounds, and plays compared to the arcade and the PS1 Raiden Project. Facts are awesome, but in this case they don't change how I feel when I'm playing the game. You can tell me all the wonderful and better things in one plate of food compared to another, but the one that tastes best to me is the winner, everything else be damned.

I love your comparisons, but a convert it did not make.

[Bonknuts]

Frag and I did a hack to the SCD version. We ran out of room to finish it (ram), but it had alternate sound tracks, ship color options, turn off extra levels, respawn options, high res mode, and difficulty modes.

 Since TED 2.4 is out, with SCD+512k, I might finish the hack.

[esteban]

RAIDEN COMPARISON

All of that is interesting and informative, but doesn't change the fact that I don't like the way the PCE version looks, sounds, and plays compared to the arcade and the PS1 Raiden Project. Facts are awesome, but in this case they don't change how I feel when I'm playing the game. You can tell me all the wonderful and better things in one plate of food compared to another, but the one that tastes best to me is the winner, everything else be damned.

I love your comparisons, but a convert it did not make.

I stand by my earlier statement: you are crazy.

I still love you, but you are crazy.



P.S. What?! Crazy.

[Black Tiger]

I'm not a fan of Raiden in general and one of the reasons is that when it came out I didn't like visuals. That kind of style was cool for older games like Tiger Heli, but unlocking the potential to do pretty much anything by going sci-fi... and this is what you wound up with?

Still, I like the challenge of the PCE versions throwing an impossible amount of enemies and bullets at you.