brexit wins ... OMFG!

[elmer]

Native genocide, proxy armies, political assassinations, no-fly zones, Chile, Cambodia, Panama, Greneda, Hondouras...death is a US export second only to superhero movies and fat. None of this is what we were taking about though, so I guess we'll just stop wasting each other's time pretending we want to have an actual conversation.

You, sir, are a miserable, cynical, depressing, realist, with a very negative view of the last XX years of world politics.

I'd love to buy you a beer and have a good evening's argument over our (marginally) different views of the world. 

[TheClash603]

I disagree that the immigration comparison between Mexicans (legal or not) and Islamic refugees is fair.  The melting pot idea in America is alive and well and most people are happy to accept people of all different origins.  It is trendy to eat ethnic foods and watch soccer and basically do everything that isn't traditional Americana.

The Trump wall thing lost a ton of steam and a minority of people actually buy into this crap.  However, letting refugees from radical countries without known backgrounds into a country is a legitimate concern.

[esteban]

I disagree that the immigration comparison between Mexicans (legal or not) and Islamic refugees is fair.  The melting pot idea in America is alive and well and most people are happy to accept people of all different origins.  It is trendy to eat ethnic foods and watch soccer and basically do everything that isn't traditional Americana.

The Trump wall thing lost a ton of steam and a minority of people actually buy into this crap.  However, letting refugees from radical countries without known backgrounds into a country is a legitimate concern.

(1) America was founded by radical extremists. Just ask George II and George III.

(2) Let the goddamn refugees in. Fear should NEVER trump  humanitarian needs. Fear should NEVER trump skewed perceptions of danger. We are morally bankrupt cowards when our policies are driven by fear. Help the broken, devastated souls before it is too late. Help them all. Do not even turn away a single person. A strong, powerful, just and fair nation would help as many as possible. Help every one. No, locking them into a refugee (internment) camp with horrific living conditions is not what I have in mind.

(3) Our own corporations and politicians have DEVASTATED the American worker (through anti-Union policies, etc. etc.) FAR MORE than the "threat" of immigrant workers. The fact that "union" is a dirty word shows how ignorant and utterly clueless the average American is.  Hmmm... The American worker has been exploited for decades by corporations and allow the elite to reap all the benefits...but instead of identifying *that* as the problem (labor has no power), we blame immigrants. We are f*cking idiots.

(4) We are f*cking idiots (still).

(5) I am terrified by America's reaction to "terrorism". That is the True Tragedy: any semblance of being civilized, fair and just has taken a back seat to brutal, savage, reprehensible policies and responses.

(6) America: Home of the Knave.

(7) I work in NYC. I don't feel safer now that I routinely see militarized police and National Guard at mass transit hubs. The average American should not have to see automatic rifles and flak jackets. It is a constant reminder that instead of using our resources to decrease inequality/injustice (the true cause of all suffering), we parade guns and military paraphernalia in public. We are f*cking idiots.

( I am not worried about a terrorist attack in NYC. I am too busy trying to make enough money to pay my bills, and hoping that I don't end up a statistic (the air pollution, traffic accidents, slipping on steps, etc.) are a billion times more likely to kill me and my family than any terrorist act (which, as statistics reveal, is much more likely to be perpetuated by homegrown "patriotic" anti-government extremists, radical Christian anti-abortion activists, violent homophobic hooligans, Neo-Nazi thugs, mentally unhinged gun-owners born and bred in America, etc. etc.)

(9) I don't fear immigrants. Or Islamic terrorists. I fear America's ignorance.

[mitsuman]

For Esteban

[wiseau]

I disagree that the immigration comparison between Mexicans (legal or not) and Islamic refugees is fair.  The melting pot idea in America is alive and well and most people are happy to accept people of all different origins.  It is trendy to eat ethnic foods and watch soccer and basically do everything that isn't traditional Americana.

The Trump wall thing lost a ton of steam and a minority of people actually buy into this crap.  However, letting refugees from radical countries without known backgrounds into a country is a legitimate concern.

(1) America was founded by radical extremists. Just ask George II and George III.

(2) Let the goddamn refugees in. Fear should NEVER trump  humanitarian needs. Fear should NEVER trump skewed perceptions of danger. We are morally bankrupt cowards when our policies are driven by fear. Help the broken, devastated souls before it is too late. Help them all. Do not even turn away a single person. A strong, powerful, just and fair nation would help as many as possible. Help every one. No, locking them into a refugee (internment) camp with horrific living conditions is not what I have in mind.

Maybe we wouldn't fear the "refugees" if we knew they were actually legit. I wish there was someone who could do things like background checks, but it seems everyone is too scared of being called the dreaded R-word.

[jtucci31]

I disagree that the immigration comparison between Mexicans (legal or not) and Islamic refugees is fair.  The melting pot idea in America is alive and well and most people are happy to accept people of all different origins.  It is trendy to eat ethnic foods and watch soccer and basically do everything that isn't traditional Americana.

The Trump wall thing lost a ton of steam and a minority of people actually buy into this crap.  However, letting refugees from radical countries without known backgrounds into a country is a legitimate concern.

(2) Let the goddamn refugees in. Fear should NEVER trump  humanitarian needs. Fear should NEVER trump skewed perceptions of danger. We are morally bankrupt cowards when our policies are driven by fear. Help the broken, devastated souls before it is too late. Help them all. Do not even turn away a single person. A strong, powerful, just and fair nation would help as many as possible. Help every one. No, locking them into a refugee (internment) camp with horrific living conditions is not what I have in mind.

(3) Our own corporations and politicians have DEVASTATED the American worker (through anti-Union policies, etc. etc.) FAR MORE than the "threat" of immigrant workers. The fact that "union" is a dirty word shows how ignorant and utterly clueless the average American is.  Hmmm... The American worker has been exploited for decades by corporations and allow the elite to reap all the benefits...but instead of identifying *that* as the problem (labor has no power), we blame immigrants. We are f*cking idiots.

Well said esteban. I can't stand anti-union bullshit by seemingly wealthy incompetent government officials who have enough money to practically support an entire state on their own, then claim "we are just trying to help and reduce debt". It's infuriating to say the least, I've seen my mother go through it for years.

You and Zeta touched on the immigrant thing well, I think. I couldn't have said it better myself

[esteban]

I disagree that the immigration comparison between Mexicans (legal or not) and Islamic refugees is fair.  The melting pot idea in America is alive and well and most people are happy to accept people of all different origins.  It is trendy to eat ethnic foods and watch soccer and basically do everything that isn't traditional Americana.

The Trump wall thing lost a ton of steam and a minority of people actually buy into this crap.  However, letting refugees from radical countries without known backgrounds into a country is a legitimate concern.

(1) America was founded by radical extremists. Just ask George II and George III.

(2) Let the goddamn refugees in. Fear should NEVER trump  humanitarian needs. Fear should NEVER trump skewed perceptions of danger. We are morally bankrupt cowards when our policies are driven by fear. Help the broken, devastated souls before it is too late. Help them all. Do not even turn away a single person. A strong, powerful, just and fair nation would help as many as possible. Help every one. No, locking them into a refugee (internment) camp with horrific living conditions is not what I have in mind.

Maybe we wouldn't fear the "refugees" if we knew they were actually legit. I wish there was someone who could do things like background checks, but it seems everyone is too scared of being called the dreaded R-word.

I think you missed my point: every single broken soul deserves our help. They are *all* "legit", even if their paperwork (ha!) isn't in order, even if they have different political/social/moral/ethical beliefs than me (or the average American, or European, or __________). Even if they openly oppose ________.

Why?

Because humanity.

Why?

Why ask why? Drink Bud Dry.



ASIDE: Anyway, the horrific oppression/crimes perpetrated in the name of Stopping Evil Communism are too numerous to list. And we are still dealing with the repercussions.

Surely we can see that Stopping Evil Islam is the same path to hell?

Literally. The. Same. Path. To. Hell.

Surely we can learn not to repeat our savagery*.



* I am referring, of course, to the greatest crime against humanity perpetrated by Americans: Budweiser/Bud Light/Bud Dry (R.I.P.)**





** Why do I suspect that more people will be more offended by my mocking of Budweiser? Folks may hate my political views, but they will probably ignore it. But teasing folks about Bud? Yet another reason for HUAC 2016! I would be called before the House Un-American Activities Committee, even though I don't think Bud*** is any worse than a lot of mild beers from around the globe.






*** I have been fantasizing about Bud Dry for the past few years. Some may attribute it to nostalgia. I would attribute it to successful marketing + genetic evolution of the human species. Those old commercials from my youth became part of my neural network. My DNA. My identity. Me. I wasn't old enough to drink alcohol when Bud Dry was introduced, and I feel that I have been cheated by Time. By the Cosmos. By Fate. Maybe this is the true reason I resent Budweiser—unfulfilled desires. I am not entirely joking. For want of Bud Dry. To savor and sip a Bud Dry, circa 1989, is something I can never attain. Never. The hole in my soul will never be filled, patched or mended. To savor a bottle of Bud Dry whilst playing my brand new Legendary Axe for TG-16.... I could die happy if I did it once. The Cosmos is Cruel. This morning my daughter said, "Why do we live in perpetual fear?" To which I replied automatically, unthinkingly—like a monk in a monastery: "Why ask why? Drink Bud Dry."

Amen.

[geise]

Don't worry este.  I hate any beer with Bud relations.

_{Except Tequiza.  I kid of course .  It is literally cat piss.}

[SignOfZeta]

It's been a long time since I liked an Estaban post that much and I'm glad to be reminded of how much we have in common since I agree with all of what he said except for the stuff about beer because beer is gross.

[SignOfZeta]

Native genocide, proxy armies, political assassinations, no-fly zones, Chile, Cambodia, Panama, Greneda, Hondouras...death is a US export second only to superhero movies and fat. None of this is what we were taking about though, so I guess we'll just stop wasting each other's time pretending we want to have an actual conversation.

You, sir, are a miserable, cynical, depressing, realist, with a very negative view of the last XX years of world politics.

I'd love to buy you a beer and have a good evening's argument over our (marginally) different views of the world. 

Mass graves. What's you're opinion on them? Do you understand how many of them exist in the US?

There is no such thing as an innocent country. We all know that. Take Japan for example, maybe the most child-like and pacifist nation on earth today but with a list of atrocities longer than a severed arm.

The US is a great place and I'm glad to live here but our history is f*cking DARK and, unlike Germany, Japan, the UK, etc we never got "busted" for anything. We've gotten away with everything. Apologize for nothing. Pay reparations to no one. Who is there to punish us for two illegal invasions of Iraq for totally fabricated reasons? The UN is theoretically suposed to do that but the sure fire proof that we are the only super power left is that nobody does anything about our f*ckups. We don't even have to worry about Soviets or Chinese rushing to take over our mess anymore. "There ain't no justice, just U.S." No one has ever made us eat our own shit and as a nation we have the total lack of humility to go with it. The last major nation to ditch slavery, the first and only to use a nuke. And we loved it so much we did it again as soon as we could. Nowhere near repentant, rather people are actually *proud* that a couple hundred thousand civilians were destroyed with the push of a button. The same people who supposedly loathe terrorism...but it isn't terrorism if your terrorists have the budget to paint a flag on the bomb. You know the guys. They'll respond to this post as predictably as they buy fake American cars and lower the volume of their voice just before they say something stupid.

Hopefully someday the US will be at least half as great as so many people think it is. Our glory days however are in the future. There is very very little to be proud of in the past and where it it found its usually coming from fighting the status quo, never embracing it. The people who went to jail are our real heroes, not some some slave owning tax dodgers from the 18th century.

"The greatest Americans have not been born yet. They are waiting for the past to die."  - Saul Williams

[esteban]

Don't worry este.  I hate any beer with Bud relations.

_{Except Tequiza.  I kid of course .  It is literally cat piss.}

So true. So true.

And I usually like cat piss.

It's been a long time since I liked an Estaban post that much and I'm glad to be reminded of how much we have in common since I agree with all of what he said except for the stuff about beer because beer is gross.

Ha!

I wonder how you feel about my Pro-arpeggio (PROARP) stance?

It seems like the Anti-arpeggio (ANTARP) folks are motivated by xenophobia; indeed support for ANTARP is growing every year amongst folks in the Americas.

Arpeggios deserve our love! We can't turn our backs on them!

Thank you.

[elmer]

* I am referring, of course, to the greatest crime against humanity perpetrated by Americans: Budweiser/Bud Light/Bud Dry (R.I.P.)**

And then there's Anheuser-Busch's decades long attempt to stop the original Czech brewer of Budweiser beer, (that exported it to America before Anheuser-Busch took the name and made their own piss-poor copy), from actually using the trademark "Budweiser".

Typical American hubris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budweiser_Budvar_Brewery

It's been a long time since I liked an Estaban post that much and I'm glad to be reminded of how much we have in common since I agree with all of what he said except for the stuff about beer because beer is gross.

Beer can be absolutely great!

Just not the cheap-to-manufacture sour fizzy yellow cat's pee that's foisted on the American public by the big brewing companies.

"The King of Beers" ... hahahaha! 

BTW ... the original "Budweiser Budvar", or "Czechvar" here, is actually a very good beer, if you like that style of lager, containing all the richness and flavor that Anheuser-Busch threw away in their mania to use ingredients that are as-cheap-as-possible, and to replace "quality" with "marketing".

[esteban]

@elmer: Yes...like CocaCola, we have $$$$  diverted to marketing instead of quality ingredients.

Of course, I love Diet Coke.

GUILTY!

[SuperDeadite]

In the USA we still honor Columbus Day.....

[Bonknuts]

In the USA we still honor Columbus Day.....

Not only that, but when I was a kid - grade school atmosphere made him out to be a hero! Why did people celebrate this guy? He's part a history, not something necessarily to celebrate or hero-tize.