Sega Brings back Wonder Boy on Jap PS2

[PC Gaijin]

The latest Sega Ages releases are great. I don't remember when Sega started doing them (maybe Phantasy Star Generation 2?), but the ones I've bought have been fine. The GH Treasure Box was superb. It had the original games, not remakes, and a ton of bonus stuff. I'd love to have a Monster World collection done in the same style.

[Black Tiger]

I hope they still manage to get around to Phantasy Star IV, even if it means skipping III.

I also hope that a Monster World collection not only has 'IV, but also all the Sega Mark III titles with optional FM sound and the SG-1000 Wonderboy.

[FM-77]

And there seems to be a few regular commenters who sound like they actually dislike the Turbo/PCE and think that it sucks in various ways... -but they still hang around here to trash it and all the games on a regular basis.

Oh I know who this is directed at.  Sorry, it's just that I'm a very negative person, and I tend to (tend to, not always) look at things objectively. I'm "hating" games like The Dynastic Hero and Ys Book 1-2, but strictly from an objective plane. I like (to play) these games, but they haven't aged well at all, and they honestly are bad games. DH suffers from some of the worst level designs in video game history, and Ys Book 1-2 (for PC Engine) is the most unbalanced game I have ever played. Just a couple of examples.

I've been trying to be "less" negative, but it's my nature so it is kind of hard. I really do love the PC Engine, but whenever something gets too optimistic (all praise, and almost always because of nostalgia and other biased factors - which it usually does in fan-bases like this) I must go in there, and ruin all the fun. I always do this, regardless of what the subject is (video games, music, movies, politics, etc).

Maybe I should keep away from message boards altoghether... and maybe I will, because I'm really getting tired of these things.  

[esteban]

And there seems to be a few regular commenters who sound like they actually dislike the Turbo/PCE and think that it sucks in various ways... -but they still hang around here to trash it and all the games on a regular basis.

Oh I know who this is directed at.  Sorry, it's just that I'm a very negative person, and I tend to (tend to, not always) look at things objectively. I'm "hating" games like The Dynastic Hero and Ys Book 1-2, but strictly from an objective plane. I like (to play) these games, but they haven't aged well at all, and they honestly are bad games. DH suffers from some of the worst level designs in video game history, and Ys Book 1-2 (for PC Engine) is the most unbalanced game I have ever played. Just a couple of examples.

I've been trying to be "less" negative, but it's my nature so it is kind of hard. I really do love the PC Engine, but whenever something gets too optimistic (all praise, and almost always because of nostalgia and other biased factors - which it usually does in fan-bases like this) I must go in there, and ruin all the fun. I always do this, regardless of what the subject is (video games, music, movies, politics, etc).

Maybe I should keep away from message boards altoghether... and maybe I will, because I'm really getting tired of these things.  

Well, I enjoy your posts, even if I sometimes feel obligated to counter your "objective" statements .

One of the biggest myths is that appreciation for older games is based on "nostalgia"... but in my experience, the folks who make that sort of critique are too lazy to examine the strengths / weaknesses of a game in the appropriate context and resort to generalities instead (i.e. you're a zelous fan, you're blinded by nostalgia, etc.)

But, I'm not trying to start a discussion on that right now (we can make a new thread to discuss the issue of nostalgia and fanboyism and "neutrality" and objectivism and etc.).

I would say that, at heart, Seldane has fun playing the role of the antagonist on this board. And that's not a bad thing at all!

[Black Tiger]

And there seems to be a few regular commenters who sound like they actually dislike the Turbo/PCE and think that it sucks in various ways... -but they still hang around here to trash it and all the games on a regular basis.

Oh I know who this is directed at.  Sorry, it's just that I'm a very negative person, and I tend to (tend to, not always) look at things objectively. I'm "hating" games like The Dynastic Hero and Ys Book 1-2, but strictly from an objective plane. I like (to play) these games, but they haven't aged well at all, and they honestly are bad games. DH suffers from some of the worst level designs in video game history, and Ys Book 1-2 (for PC Engine) is the most unbalanced game I have ever played. Just a couple of examples.

I've been trying to be "less" negative, but it's my nature so it is kind of hard. I really do love the PC Engine, but whenever something gets too optimistic (all praise, and almost always because of nostalgia and other biased factors - which it usually does in fan-bases like this) I must go in there, and ruin all the fun. I always do this, regardless of what the subject is (video games, music, movies, politics, etc).

Maybe I should keep away from message boards altoghether... and maybe I will, because I'm really getting tired of these things.  

I wasn't specifically talking about you. There really are a few different regular posters taking a hard negative slant. But I always take into account who any opinion's are coming from. Good or bad.

Otherwise, I'd have to point out that each time that everything Keranu says is crazy.

But, this is a place for Turbo/PCE fans. By todays "standards", which seems to be judged by the media, all Turbo/PCE games are primitive and ugly and devoid of gameplay. Except when it comes to downloadable stuff like Xbox Live Arcade and Wii, then all of a sudden they're all for "classics" 'cuz they're hardcor3 gamerz.

We're here to share our love of the PC Engine and judge the console and early generations of video games for their time and with a deeper apprecition that has developed over time. We were blinded by technological hype when each generation of games was current, but now we can genuinely appreciate these games for the works of art that they are.

Otherwise, we wouldn't waste our time talking about ancient garbage. My favorite musical genre is heavier fast metal, but I don't hang out in rap/hip hop forums to rant about how lyric centric so much of their "music" is.

Even the modern Ys games or pretty much anything by Falcom are 'technically' crappy by modern standards. If the new Zelda came out as any of the Ys games or any Falcom game in general, but with a Zelda theme, it'd get panned all round.

[MotherGunner]

Seldane I didn't know you hated Ys I and II?  Why do you have Esteria as your location?

Just an acute observation there...

[FM-77]

Seldane I didn't know you hated Ys I and II?  Why do you have Esteria as your location?

Just an acute observation there...

Because I love Ys. I love it for what it is, but I still consider the Ys games pretty bad.

[Emerald Rocker]

1) The Sega Collection rocked.  Sure, Golden Axe was lame, but at least it had nice music.  The remake of Space Harrier was really fun, and many of the others -- Outrun, Fantasy Zone, Alien Syndrome -- were good enough to justify spending $20 (or less).

2) Recent Sega Ages discs have been absolutely incredible.  The remake of Dynamite Deka is unbelievably deep, which is surprising because the original was never a deep game.  The Space Harrier II Collection is also sweet.  It's got Space Harrier 2, but more importantly, it's got EVERY version of the original, except for the 3D remake.  It's even got a superplay video of the arcade game.

3) Black_Tiger mentioned that the modern Falcom and Ys games are technically crappy by modern standards... I disagree.   Even by modern standards, they're technically excellent: lush, detailed graphics running at nice frame rates (Felghana even ups the resolution from Napishtim), clear and vibrant music, slick controls... the technical aspects are really well-done.

People who seriously complain about the technical aspects in modern Falcom games aren't really complaining about the technical aspects at all.  They're complaining about the aesthetics -- they see a game with intentionally old-school sensibilities and assume that it's inferior to the latest FPS or 3rd-person action-adventure.  If Falcom tweaked the Felghana graphics engine and used it to create a Devil May Cry style game, I doubt there would be many complaints.

4) You can't just hand Ys 1&2 to anyone and expect a positive reaction, but the belief that it can't appeal to modern gamers is nonsense.  It's a REALLY well-done game, and the quality of its music and presentation style can and has impressed people who grew up on the PSX (or later).  The other thing that helps Ys 1&2 is that it's actually a really simple game.  Modern gamers can sit down and play it without a huge mental investment, which makes it easier for them to keep playing... and the more they play, well, the better it gets.

I know the above to be true because it happened to me.  I first played through Ys 1&2 about three years ago, maybe four.  I had seen the cinematics a long time ago, but I hadn't ever played the actual game.  Just a few weeks ago, an AIM-chat buddy who's just now entering college played through Ys 1&2 for the first time and declared it the best RPG ever.

Yeah, nostalgia is a powerful thing.  But sometimes an old game actually does a lot of things right and earns its credit.  And some aspects -- such as the excellent musical arrangement by Ryo Yonemitsu -- remain technically excellent in any generation.

[PC Gaijin]

I agree with Seldane on Ys. I've always thought the gameplay was pretty clunky. The story/setting/presentation were what made Ys special.

Another thread on nostalgia versus genuine enjoyment and appreciation of older games would be interesting. I've certainly been thinking a lot about that subject lately with the next generation of consoles arriving.

[Black Tiger]

Black_Tiger mentioned that the modern Falcom and Ys games are technically crappy by modern standards... I disagree.   Even by modern standards, they're technically excellent: lush, detailed graphics running at nice frame rates (Felghana even ups the resolution from Napishtim), clear and vibrant music, slick controls... the technical aspects are really well-done.

People who seriously complain about the technical aspects in modern Falcom games aren't really complaining about the technical aspects at all.  They're complaining about the aesthetics -- they see a game with intentionally old-school sensibilities and assume that it's inferior to the latest FPS or 3rd-person action-adventure.  If Falcom tweaked the Felghana graphics engine and used it to create a Devil May Cry style game, I doubt there would be many complaints.

By modern standards, I was refering to the hypocritical way that proffessional game reviewers and a lot of younger gamers judge games.

Classic or "traditional" leaning games often are dismissed as too simple or unoriginal, while the 30th rehash of a modern button masher, pseudo-movie or barely interactive RPG are praised as revolutions. Especially if they have the biggest budget 3D visuals.

And anything featuring any kind of 2D graphics is commented on with "if you can get past the SNES graphics".

They even complain if a non-uber-series game has a fire/lava area and/or a snow/ice area, -but only if the game takes place in many different types of areas, and not just a fire/lava area or just a snow/ice area.

If Falcom tweaked the Felghana graphics engine and used it to create a Devil May Cry style game, I doubt there would be many complaints.

-this is exactly my point.

I agree with Seldane on Ys. I've always thought the gameplay was pretty clunky. The story/setting/presentation were what made Ys special.

Although I love the aesthetics and story(especially before it was fleshed out) of the Ys series, I'll always love the enemy ramming gameplay.

It's all in how it's done. I loved Ys on SMS, but didn't really like Hydlide on NES and I've only grown fonder of the original Ys games as time passes.

I don't hate innovation though and think that The Legend Of Xanadu II was the perfect evolution from Ys.

[Emerald Rocker]

I agree with Seldane on Ys. I've always thought the gameplay was pretty clunky. The story/setting/presentation were what made Ys special.

That wouldn't make it a bad game, though, which is what Seldane called it.  A great game doesn't have to be great in every way.  So-so gameplay + superior setting + superior presentation can add up to "true classic".

That being said, I wouldn't call the gameplay "clunky".  Primitive and straightforward, yeah, but the hit detection and character speed were fine and felt reasonably natural.  We also need to remember that gameplay means more than "controls".  Some of the fights in Ys were pretty ingenious.  Also, the entirety of Darm Tower was some great gameplay.

Now, Night Creatures is something I would call clunky  

[runinruder]

I'm "hating" games like The Dynastic Hero and Ys Book 1-2, but strictly from an objective plane. I like (to play) these games, but they haven't aged well at all, and they honestly are bad games.

Sorry, folks, but Seldane is absolutely right about this.  Speaking OBJECTIVELY, there is no doubt that "classics" like Dynastic Hero, Ys Book I & II, and Zelda III are horrible video games.

There was a Cosmic Fantasy 2 thread going a week or two ago, and some guy posted in it that Zelda III was "2D perfection," or something along those lines.  I grieved for that fellow because he was clearly letting nostalgia distort his view of an archaic piece of junk.  

It's sad how people can't admit that, objectively, old favorites make for modern trash.  It's a good thing that there are guys like Seldane and me around to straighten them out.

[MotherGunner]

I'm "hating" games like The Dynastic Hero and Ys Book 1-2, but strictly from an objective plane. I like (to play) these games, but they haven't aged well at all, and they honestly are bad games.

Sorry, folks, but Seldane is absolutely right about this.  Speaking OBJECTIVELY, there is no doubt that "classics" like Dynastic Hero, Ys Book I & II, and Zelda III are horrible video games.

There was a Cosmic Fantasy 2 thread going a week or two ago, and some guy posted in it that Zelda III was "2D perfection," or something along those lines.  I grieved for that fellow because he was clearly letting nostalgia distort his view of an archaic piece of junk.  

It's sad how people can't admit that, objectively, old favorites make for modern trash.  It's a good thing that there are guys like Seldane and me around to straighten them out.

I partially agree.  Which is why I said that the first time I played Ys I thought it was shit.

I grew up with a Turbo Grafx, however up until I was 27 (im 29 now) I had only been a Hucard Gamer.  Once I bought my Duo-R off of DLite I went ahead and went back to buy the games I couldnt own as a child.  So by that  time I had owned everything up till Xbox.  However, I let the game grow on me, and I overlooked the old school in it.  For me it had nothing to do with Nostalgia.

I am looking forward to getting the Wonder Boy games from Sega, and since I love Ys now Im gonna go for the PC Complete version so I can use that English Patch.

[Emerald Rocker]

I disagree with Runinruder.  Zelda 3 has always been shit.

[Keranu]

Lots of good posts in this thread. Since I'm too lazy to go back and make a indepth thread, I would just like to comment that there are tons of games I love on the Turbo, whether they be great classics like Ys, or mega cheese like It Came From the Desert, it had nothing to do with nostalgia for me because I was never near a Turbo Grafx 16 growing up. Now games like Insector X for Genesis was for nostalgic for me and people who talk to me online know I have a deep nostalgic passion for that game and have had to defend my liking for it many times . Go here for more info .