Better alternatives to photoshop for generating paletted low resolution art

[Gredler]

Sometimes I worry that I am set in my ways, and I constantly just use photoshop because that's what I've done for over 15 years - so it's just my "default make art" program.


Today in the DoxPhile chat sirhcman posted a video about "Delux Paint 2"




While watching this I started thinking maybe I am close minded and might be missing out on applications that would make my life easier by sticking too close to the "photoshop > gimp > mappy" workflow.


I currently use smart objects to assemble mockups of what the finished scene will look at, with a smart object for each "tile" so I can update that object and see the results on my mock-up. I spend a lot of time cleaning up "typos" that ruin my palette. I try to stick to the  x/36 palette, but since I want to work within RGB mode (so many more features available) I often pollute my palette by accidentally changing my brush blending mode or opacity ( or forget to switch back to "pixel art mode" and have bi-linear filtering on my transforms/brushes)


Maybe I am making things too difficult on myself, and am closed minded to old and or modern equivalent tools for developing within the restrictions we're held to on PCE?


I'd really like to hear from some of the veteran PCE artists out there! (cough cough Paul cough cough BT    )

[esteban]

Graph paper.

Done.

[Gredler]

Graph paper does what turrican't.

[Bonknuts]

Pixel art is one thing, but map making is something else on its own (and yet still related). I've worked mostly with photoshop, and find gimp and some other programs to be cumbersome. Although I'm sure that's probably more of a matter of experience with one, and less with the other.

 As far as pixel art - whatever you're most comfortable with, usually does the trick. When it comes to tiles, maps, and all things subpalettes - then I would say there's no good application out there for the PCE. This is where home grown tools for the system come into play. I tend to use mappy for maps, when I need something quick - but I have tools that embedded PCE subpalette data right into the pixel values so that I can convert it into proper multiple subpalette tilemap/tileset conversion without having to remap or define it on the compiler/assembler side (I don't use mappy FMP include support; my stuff is raw data at that stage). And even then, it's not really optimal. I have the same set of tools that works back into photoshop - allowing me with work with 16 individual subpalettes directly (tiles or sprites). I might be over looking Promotion, as I only use it for limited/specific stuffs, but it is designed around tile and map functionality (it's directly built in). And there are sprite programs out there specifically designed to aid in the creation of animation.

 But if you're going to get that committed, you might as well drop mappy and incchr, and all the libs associated with them - and write your own library handling code. Just my opinion though...

[ccovell]

Grafx 2 (whatever number) on Various OSes.

What I do, because there's still nothing more satisfying, is load up an Amiga emulator and use Brilliance ('cause it does PCE 3:3:3 palettes), Deluxe Paint IV or V ('cause it lets you move around entire groups of colours), and Personal Paint.

[Gredler]

Thanks for the info guys, I think I am going to try and experiment with deluxe paint, and a few others. DK would have to do any library handling code, and I don't think its something worth him spending time on without major benefits over the huc standards paired with mappy.

Right now I mock up the tilesets, export them based on shared palettes, combine those shared palettes into one image and put that into mappy to make an fmp, then send the fmp and individual pcx tile images to DK for implementation.

The moving groups of colors (and tinting groups of colors brighter and darker) interested me most. Handling a variety of palettes at once in Photoshop can easily get unruly and makes me constantly check it by indexing it and confirming I am conformed to X/36 colors. Working within the limitations might save me time, but I worry about losing so many of the tools I have in Photoshop, of which there are many

[Trenton_net]

Generally speaking, for tools I usually use FOSS before anything else. So rather than learn a proprietary piece of software like Photoshop, I naturally prefer to use GIMP instead. The same goes for office productivity software. Even if the license for MS Office only costs like $13 (Company Discount), I'd prefer to use LibreOffice and not vender-lock myself in. It's especially true these days given how many FOSS is equal to, or better than the pay alternatives.

[sunteam_paul]

I use Photoshop. Andrew complains that it reverses the palette but pffft, that's programmers problems

[Gredler]

I use Photoshop. Andrew complains that it reverses the palette but pffft, that's programmers problems

Hahah OK thanks for the sanity check. I'd prefer to stick to Photoshop, but wondered if I had been foolishly set in my wheys.

Generally speaking, for tools I usually use FOSS before anything else. So rather than learn a proprietary piece of software like Photoshop, I naturally prefer to use GIMP instead. The same goes for office productivity software. Even if the license for MS Office only costs like $13 (Company Discount), I'd prefer to use LibreOffice and not vender-lock myself in. It's especially true these days given how many FOSS is equal to, or better than the pay alternatives.

I've been using photo shop since 4.0 in the mid 90s, I now subscribe to Creative Cloud. So Photoshop is my default, with gimp as the middleman to get a useable palette.

Deluxe paint sounds like the best alternative right now. I'm curious if the palette handling is worth the step back in other functionality.

I have been trying to use cluts to stomp my color woes with mixxed results, Photoshop is a little bitch when it comes to color limiting with their suite of tools still functioning. I end up doing final polish in index modes (no layers, or filters, etc)

[Arkhan]

Yeah, Photoshop is a dickhead and inverts the PCX palette, so you have to uninvert it with GIMP.

I prefer:

Grafx2
NeoPaint
PC Paintbrush
Paintshop Pro

any of those are OK by me.

[Gredler]

f*ck photoshop, screw delux paint, forget grafx2, and ditch gimp.

I need me a pc-98 and a "Sega Digitizer System"


http://videogamesdensetsu.tumblr.com/post/149092824100/the-sega-digitizer-system-a-tool-used-by-graphic

[Bonknuts]

Heh.

 Well, I'm not opposed to using more than one tool to the get the job done, depending on what I'm doing.



 Gredler: Let me ask you this; which tool/app do you use to make seamless repeating patterns (tiles)?

[Gredler]

Gredler: Let me ask you this; which tool/app do you use to make seamless repeating patterns (tiles)?

I use photoshop the same way I make tileable textures for 3d applications.

While drawing the tile I use the offset filter to check the pattern and ensure there are no "seams" or  oddities, and I have a reference image composed of all of the tiles placed as smart objects. Smart objects are  like instances of images that you place in photoshop, so I can make a brick tile and then place it a bunch of times as a smart object, and just update that one smart object to see it propagate as a tilemap.

[DarkKobold]

Gredler: Let me ask you this; which tool/app do you use to make seamless repeating patterns (tiles)?

I use photoshop the same way I make tileable textures for 3d applications.

While drawing the tile I use the offset filter while to check the pattern and ensure there are no "seams" or  oddities, and I have a reference image composed of all of the tiles placed as smart objects. Smart objects are  like instances of images that you place in photoshop, so I can make a brick tile and then place it a bunch of times as a smart object, and just update that one smart object to see it propagate as a tilemap.

Holy shit, this reads like greek to me.

[Arkhan]

lol the first things I did for Insanity were done with PC Paintbrush in DOSBox.

awyea