CIB system prices

[SignOfZeta]

You could also buy real games and play them on a loose un-modded system...as was the norm for decades.

I'm a bit weirded out/tired by the whole "what you need is a $400 Duo and flash cart and CDRs" being promoted as the only path to PCE enjoyment. You don't really needed access to every single game for free. You can only play one at a time anyway, and a PCE looks and plays just fine un-modded as long as your TV isn't f*cking everything up.

I would however mirror the Duo recommendation if you have the means. Card-only systems are severely held back and the modular ones are usually more expensive to procure and harder to service. That said, there are still a lot of good HuCARDs. If I had to choose between cards and CDs it would actually be a pretty hard choice to make.

Region mod: while this is handy, it's not really that useful. US HuCARDs are expensive and usually identical to JP ones. If you just buy a JP system in the first place the mod is really only useful for playing US HUCARDs that are special in some way, like translation and US only games. There are only...what, three text heavy games in English? And most of the US exclusives are unplayable crap since western development on consoles was a joke BITD.

In short, buy a Core with Super Star Solider before you spend five times as much on a system you might not even like.

[Black Tiger]

Loose complete:

TG-16 $40 - $50

Where are you finding complete TG16s for $50?

Yeah that pricing is outdated.  Even DK Oldies Sell your Games will buy a complete TG-16 with cords for $80 right now, and cover your shipping.  No testing, no cleaning, no questions asked. If you got a complete one, mail it to them and enjoy your $80.  They run on low margins but I'm sure they're getting $110-$120+ for them if they are paying that out in cash on trade in.

I'm not going to feed trolls or give leads to flippers, but you can get a game playing setup in that range on eBay.

[Desh]

You could also buy real games and play them on a loose un-modded system...as was the norm for decades.

I'm a bit weirded out/tired by the whole "what you need is a $400 Duo and flash cart and CDRs" being promoted as the only path to PCE enjoyment. You don't really needed access to every single game for free. You can only play one at a time anyway, and a PCE looks and plays just fine un-modded as long as your TV isn't f*cking everything up.

I would however mirror the Duo recommendation if you have the means. Card-only systems are severely held back and the modular ones are usually more expensive to procure and harder to service. That said, there are still a lot of good HuCARDs. If I had to choose between cards and CDs it would actually be a pretty hard choice to make.

Region mod: while this is handy, it's not really that useful. US HuCARDs are expensive and usually identical to JP ones. If you just buy a JP system in the first place the mod is really only useful for playing US HUCARDs that are special in some way, like translation and US only games. There are only...what, three text heavy games in English? And most of the US exclusives are unplayable crap since western development on consoles was a joke BITD.

In short, buy a Core with Super Star Solider before you spend five times as much on a system you might not even like.

I recommended a PCE Duo because it's (relatively speaking cheap).  I think Keith sells them for like $230 refurbished.  If you're handy you can still intermittently find them for around $100 if they have issues (I've never paid more than $150 for a Duo including my U.S. Duo because I buy broken stuff and fix it).  I think the PCE Duo is the best bang for the buck as far as hardware goes.

Why not Everdrive and CD-R's?  I personally don't like to buy games based on reviews.  Everyone likes different things.  I can typically pop in a game for a few minutes and decide whether or not I'm going to like it.  There are plenty of JP releases that I have no idea what they are.  My decision could be to take a chance and lose the money spent to buy it, or try it on Everdrive/CD-R/Emulator and see if it's something I would want to own.  What about expensive games like Magical Chase etc?  I will never shell out that kind of money to own it but I would still like to play it so thank god for Everdrive/CD-R/Emulator.

[Black Tiger]

Even if you want to buy and play original games, you should try them first on cdr and flashcarts.

[Necromancer]

And if you're really worried about not liking the system at all, try a few of the most popular titles in an emulator.

I can't seriously see that being an issue, though, not unless it's some youngster that's never played anything other than CoD.  Outside of pervy majong games and digi-comics, they're games similar to what's found on every other 2D system.

[SignOfZeta]

To me, that's not fun. I buy my games based on experience with the developer, the character designer, the genre, the recommendations of friends, love for whatever game was ripped off to make this one (Outrun/Victory Run) and many times, yes, I'm drawn in by the box. When you go channel flipping in an emulator ALL context is removed. How that game looks on a shelf next to other games, it's place in a series, the image art, the magazine ads, reviews, etc are completely stripped away and all you have left is a file name. If that's actually fun to you, then by all means enjoy it. I know it's less fun for me that way because I've spent time doing it. That context that didn't make the transition to the zip file is real. You're missing more than a case.

Columbia Record club vs actual record store, more or less.

And music angle is no coincidence. I discovered a few years ago how f*ckING BORING it is to talk music with someone once they've sold off all their records.

"This one is pretty good!" (Points at some tiny text on a monitor)

"Nothing like this though." (Points at some other text)

"Dude, it took me forever to find this one." (Points at some slightly different text)

And just as my friends who have sold all their music off rarely listen to even %1 of their MP3 collection I find most people who channel flip ROMs have a very shallow appreciation for the games. If it doesn't entertain them in three seconds they flip again, only ever spending time on Sonic or Bonk or whatever, often times to study the display or controller or whatever but rarely will they discover a gem and completely clear it.

I expect none of this applies to a lot of people but maybe someone else sees it this way. ONLY playing free copies of shit with all non-digital art and context removed would make the PCE much less fun for me. It would have no affect on my ability to enjoy newer stuff since the game industry has succeeded in stripping out all that stuff on their own for $ reasons.

[Desh]

Zeta, I do agree with your thinking.  I think most of us here grew up buying games that way.  I'd be lying to you if I said I still don't buy games this way.  However, as crappy as it is we live in a world where Last Alert sells for $50-$70.  While I personally love the game you could probably consider it to be mediocre and many probably don't like it.  When you're shelling out that kind of coin on an old game you know nothing about, on a system you know nothing about, it's probably wise to have a little "test drive" with it first.

[GoldenWheels]

I kind of agree with Zeta. I buy semi-blind on PC-E games because $10-$20 can still get you some cool action/shooters etc and it's fun firing it up for the first time and forming an opinion about a game, fresh. But that $ is my limit.

I also find that having cash invested (vs emulating/flash carts) seems to power me through the tougher parts of games, just like in the old days when you had one rental for the whole weekend or had just blown 2 months of lawnmowing money on one game. "I paid for this dammit, I won't quit!"

Now, if was still actively buying TG16 I'd be testing every game on an emulator because no one (IMO) should pay $40 for freakin' Impossamole.

I say I buy PC-E semi-blind as I only rule out basically what Necro said--mah jong, comics, also anything heavy on needing to know Japanese, so that rules out the RPGs and strategy games.  To me, the PC Engine Bible site is my go to reference for learning about a game pre-buy (and even then I ignore their ratings on whether to get it/try it/avoid it rankings). They tells me what kind of game it is, how English friendly it is, and have enough screenshots to for me to say "yay" or "oh hell nay".

Thrill of the hunt, with a little risk involved, adds to the experience. JMO.

[ginoscope]

I'm totally with Zeta in that I hate having every game available to me at once.   I have a flash cart for many of my systems and even an ODE for my Saturn.  What I do to keep invested in my games is limit what I have on my sd card or what I burn.  This way it feels like these are the only games I own.

I have like 20 roms I think on my snes everdrive and won't put more on there unless I finish some of the ones I got.  This keeps me interested in a few games rather than scrolling through hundreds of titles.

[Necromancer]

I can agree with that mindset for enjoying games over the long haul, but it's not really applicable to sampling a system before buying.

[Black Tiger]

"I like the NEC/Telenet/etc games I've played and I love Capcom/Sega/etc and Strider/GoldenAxe/etc and the packaging looks cool. So I can't go wrong!"

[DarkKobold]

I'm not going to feed trolls or give leads to flippers, but you can get a game playing setup in that range on eBay.

AKA, nowhere.

[esteban]

Zeta & Co., I'm with you.

It is *way* more fun to explore games the old way (having to budget your money and make decisions)...but I was buying games when they were reasonable.

I also paid too much for retail games back in the day (insert name of crappy game here, the game you will be stuck with for a long time before you can afford another).

I don't begrudge folks who "test drive" (as someone said, Impossamole is an *acquired* taste)... But it really isn't the same thing.

With any purchase or decision, there is a risk involved. When I chose to buy lots of shitty PCE games en masse, I was hoping to at least enjoy the Red Book tracks.... (Unfortunately, lots of the games I bought didn't have music, or music I liked). That didn't always work out. I felt somewhat disappointed. HOWEVER, when you do stumble upon a gem (a great song or a great game), it feels even sweeter because you had to endure that earlier disappointment.

Yin
Yang

Bitter
Sweet

I am just throwing my 2¢ behind the idea that the way we *experience* games begins well before flip the power switch.

I also believe that you can "simulate" the original retail experience by looking at scans/photos of original physical artifacts. No, it's not as fun for me, but a little research/effort help me appreciate teh romz so they don't feel completely divorced from physical gaming.

Anyway, knowing the *context* of a game is something I like. I don't need to be an expert on it, but I want to know a little bit. It just makes stuff so much more interesting.

[crazydean]

Este has it right. I doubt anyone disagrees with Zeta in that buying real games is the best way to go, and 20 years ago, it was the way to do it. However, I can't go to the flea market and pick up 20 NES titles for $20.

If I could go out and buy complete TG-16 or PCE games for $5 each, that's what I would do. Unfortunately, I can't just look in the classifieds section of my local paper and find this stuff anymore (not that I ever saw TG-16 stuff locally, anyway).

[SignOfZeta]

I can agree with that mindset for enjoying games over the long haul, but it's not really applicable to sampling a system before buying.

You're right. But when did that become compulsory? When I bought my Duo it was the ONLY Duo or Super System compatible TG-16 that I had ever seen. It was probably two years before I saw another one. Are we really such chicken shit pussies in 2016 that we can't buy something before we bore ourself with the details of it first?

Also, I only bought one PCE game so far this year ($40 copy of one of the best games on the system, PC Denjin) but have prices really gone so high that you can't afford it or are PCE games just not fun unless they cost $1 and you have every single f*cking one of them? They all cost $50-70 new you know, is the average game price even half that now? I'm pretty sure it isn't.

I'm not saying people need to blow all their money on ancient software. Don't do that. But unless you are hella poor you can probably afford PCE gaming, you just can't afford TOTAL gaming on the PCE, the machine that does everything and comes with every game, and neither can I. I only have like 100 games. Probably 1/7 of what ROM hoarders have. In some ways I invest more in this system than others, in some way more.