TG16 should have had 5 controller ports?

[SignOfZeta]

My honest opinion is that the TG-16 was doomed inherently. There simply wasn't room for three systems in a country that thinks it's individualistic and wealthy but in reality extremely conformist and broke. The only point in having more than one system is to know who "we" and "they" are. Who's in and who's out. A third system does nothing to improve the dynamic, and Duos being $300 when a Genesis was $119 only hurts.

[HuMan]

The SNES wasn't out until Fall 1991, so the first 2 years of the TG16 was spent competing with the NES and Genesis, one of which was considered inferior and therefore not significant competition. NEC USA only had the Genesis to worry about and they were significantly outmatched by Michael Katz and Tom Kalinske, those guys were marketing geniuses.

There was plenty of time and opportunity to beat the Genesis and then compete with the SNES, it didn't have to be the 3rd wheel.

[SignOfZeta]

When the JP side moved almost entirely to a CD-ROM with huge emphasis on games that are expensive to translate and overall not supremely marketable to Americans (ie pervy stuff that talks too much) then what? Where is the software going to come from? Or do you think that Tokimeki Memorial would have done well against Yoshi's Island and Vectorman even though it requires a system that costs twice as much?

The software is the real issue. I really hesitate to blame/ credit "marketing" for things. "If only we could have tricked more people into buying it." doesn't do much for me.

[HuMan]

The software was there on HuCard, 2 years before the TG16 was finally released. It was a case of too little, too late. Sure, the TG16 launched at almost the same time as the Genesis, but given the PC Engine was already being sold 2 years earlier, such a delay was completely unnecessary.

Even if the software became less internationally-appealing as the years went on, had the TG16 been handled properly, it would have at least not been an embarrassing flop.

[elmer]

There was plenty of time and opportunity to beat the Genesis and then compete with the SNES, it didn't have to be the 3rd wheel.

There was very-little chance to battle against the SNES, with Nintendo's "smart" (i.e. predatory) business practices at the time ... but NEC might have stood a chance in America if everything wasn't handled so badly by NEC.

I worked for one of the few (3 or 4) North American developers for the TurboGrafx (although after they stopped), and the same company went on to develop games for the Genesis/SegaCD and had a good relationship with SOA.

I worked next to (and know) the guys that developed "Batman Returns" on the Sega CD (for good or bad) ... and visited SOA many times.

Their product sucked ... nice CPU, but everything else was a total PITA.

BUT ... they knew how to market stuff, how to choose the right games, and how to treat developers.

I don't like them ... but they played the game of business so much better than NEC that they're just in a totally different league.

Nintendo eventually out-played Sega, and so Sega fell apart ... but NEC (as the article mentions) hardly even rates a mention.

It doesn't matter to most folks ... but as a "retired-developer" when it comes to *choosing* how to spend my time and energy ... it's with the PCE, and not with the Genesis or the SNES.

"Marketing" and "Business" are absolutely crucial to how a product survives and is appreciated by the general public ... but true beauty is a bit more complex than "sales/popularity".

The PCE (IMHO) is a design of true beauty. I'm glad that there are still a (few) people that appreciate it.

[blueraven]

I think Zeta is right. NEC designed way too much shit.

Too many accessories and US folks were probably pissed off that they had to buy; a tap for an extra $30-40, another controller, another game if they bought China Warrior or JJ and Jeff, an AV Extension if they didn't want shitty video, and f*ck-all if they had to save. On top of it all the console looks like a barbecue grill. If you have the full CD setup it looks kind of like a bulldozer. By the time you got the bulldozer you could spend an extra $200 and get the Duo (FINALLY!) with "trade-in". By that time, you're $500+ into hardware and the console had failed. Most people quit around step 2.

So , esteban I don't really share the love there.

And the artwork for most US games was pretty terrible. Whoever the idiot was that decided to "Americanize" the packaging was probably equally at fault for dooming the console. Bad design and marketing.

The PC engine was obviously far worse having a billion different versions and add-ons but at least they looked insanely cool for the most part.

EDIT: I should probably read that article someone quoted a page back.

[HuMan]

The PC engine was obviously far worse having a billion different versions and add-ons but at least they looked insanely cool for the most part.

EDIT: I should probably read that article someone quoted a page back.

For years, I never understood why there were so many different PC Engine consoles, then I read that Stalled Engine article, then it all made sense. NEC made money on hardware sales primarily, where Hudson Soft sold software and also got a small royalty on each console sold. That so clearly explains why NEC saw fit to release 9 million different PC Engines.

[crazydean]

They didn't need to put in 5 controller ports, but two would have been nice. In an age where online gaming doesn't exist, playing with a friend requires a second controller port. If you both have the same system, your friend could simply bring his controller over to your house. However, when the only way to get things is by asking your parents, you're more likely to ask for a game than a controller tap.

It's been said, but timing and release games were pretty bad. Had they released the console a year or two before Genesis, the Turbo would have been the clearly superior console over the NES and 7800. Also, the pack-in game was Keith Courage.

[Necromancer]

When the JP side moved almost entirely to a CD-ROM with huge emphasis on games that are expensive to translate and overall not supremely marketable to Americans (ie pervy stuff that talks too much) then what? Where is the software going to come from? Or do you think that Tokimeki Memorial would have done well against Yoshi's Island and Vectorman even though it requires a system that costs twice as much?

This is circular logic, arguing that the Turbob could never have competed in the US because it didn't compete in the US.  Had it been better supported, it obviously would've had more games made for it, specifically games for the US market to compete with what was selling (like Vectorman being made in response to Donkey Kong Country).

[SignOfZeta]

...I don't know. Maybe, but by who? Sega and Nintendo both had pretty significant US presence by the time NEC US and its clueless team even got started working on games. I guess it's not completely impossible that, given the revenue streams, a NEC Avenue West could give us things like Sonic 3 or Uniracers but it seems like rather a stretch. Maybe something like Nintendo CDi titles but something actually good? Maybe. I wouldn't assume so. Sadly there is no way to know.

Btw, wasn't Hudson operating in the US at this time? What was their contribution? I honestly don't know the answers to these questions.

[esteban]

SINGLE CONTROLLER PORT: You guys will hate me, but I don't think a single controller port was a bad decision.

See, if NEC really thought that multi-player was going to be an important TG-16 feature, you have to create a situation where *a significant percentage of the installed base* literally *buys in* into 5-player concept...

(1) if TG-16 had two ports, it would have been "good enough" and very few folks would have experienced 3-5 player awesomeness of Bomberman (and sequel), Dungeon Explorer (and sequel)...now...maybe NEC/Hudson needed to make a bigger push for at least a *handful* of multiplayer games that were WORTHWHILE...but, honestly, only a few really good games a year would have been fine. NEC JAPAN actually messed up this opportunity because all sorts of wacky multiplayer taps were released (3-player!) when it should have simply been two choices (1) one player for the social pariah and (2) five-player.

REMEMBER...if a developer doesn't see HUGE INSTALLED BASE *WITH* 5-player tap, then developing a game for 2+ people is a dubious proposition (and risky).



TURBOBOOSTER: UNNECESSARY. The NES had composite f*ckING video and and mono RCA OUT. I don't care if lots of Americans didn't have TVs with composite input...BECAUSE NEC WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A FORWARD-THINKING COMPANY and had experience with consumer products in America. Most Americans had a VCR and used composite inputs on VCR for video games, video cameras, etc.

SO, no, I don't forgive NEC for this decision. NES proved you could do it right (TG-16 would be stereo, obviously, not mono like NES).

I had my NES hooked up to VCR, then VCR output to family stereo, by the way. SO, even our ancient RF TV had a relatively "modern" stereo VCR + old stereo (1960's receiver and speakers) = AWESOME experience, despite some old shite. Lots of frugal families did the same thing—we made things work, even if we couldn't afford "cutting edge" equipment "across the board"



(C) Damn, I'm starving. Time for dinner. I have too much in my brain. But this is the CRUX... I really don't think NEC could have been successful without a software library...and if you look at the first two years of games...DAMN, you realize that it was SLIM PICKINS, even for launch in 1989. I feel that the TG-16 would have FLOPPED HARDER if it was released in late-87 or late-88...

[GoldenWheels]

Seems to me 2 ports (pretty much the standard at that point) would have been a damn good idea....head to head play made even some of the worst sports titles back in the day playable and fun, and those sports titles were actually desirable games to some BITD (as opposed to the 'ick' face most make when seeing old sports games now).

I also tend to think, contrary to Esteban, that having two ports could have HELPED sell taps....say you get Bomberman, you play it with a buddy. It's insanely fun. Do you say "good enough" (yeah some will) or do you say "man I'd like to try this with 5 players now that I know two players is so fun, five must be insane".  It's like a multiplayer sampler.

[Necromancer]

It has one port because the PCE has one port (to be as compact as possible).  They'd already wasted way too much time redesigning the case, so it's hard to argue that additional delays to redesign the hardware (system and tap) to include the second port would've been a wise move.

[Gentlegamer]

TurboBooster + TG-16 = sexy. Fact.

It has the same footprint as the XBAWKS HUEG.

[GoldenWheels]

It has one port because the PCE has one port (to be as compact as possible).  They'd already wasted way too much time redesigning the case, so it's hard to argue that additional delays to redesign the hardware (system and tap) to include the second port would've been a wise move.

Makes sense but it seems to me the second port should have been thought of at the same time as the case re-design. Two controller systems were the rule in America since....what, pong?

Even including a twin commander style controller woulda been an ok way to do it I think, but that's also some redesign work I suppose.