Pat & Ian video on TurboGrafx-16 Failure - What Could Have Saved It?

[sirhcman]

Notify button, mark all threads as read, these are two of my favorite things

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I think you owe me an apology. I am going to sick my programmer on you, and he will flame the shit out of you six months from now. Watch it, pal.

I'm not going to apologize for anything!

[NightWolve]

profile fields for dick pix & size measurements

plug a charged jo crystal into the usb port to enable it

Shite. My laptop only supports USB 1.0. The JO crystal is barely glowing.

[technozombie]

profile fields for dick pix & size measurements

plug a charged jo crystal into the usb port to enable it

Shite. My laptop only supports USB 1.0. The JO crystal is barely glowing.

Well my dick pix are too pixelated cuz i have to zoom in to much........so stop whining

[Otaking]

and the winner of this raffle is Esteban.

Pat is awaiting your PM to award you with your prize
http://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=3341

[NightWolve]

Cool, thanks for your unparalleled generosity in having converted this fine thread to a raffle! And congrats to esteban on the win!

[esteban]

I just want to thank my first-grade teacher, Ms. Bint, my family, and God for the Good Life I am blessed with. The High Life.

Miller High Life.



BACK ON TOPIC: I actually went from barely tolerating Pat & Ian to --> regular listener.

I can't watch the videos, but I listen to the podcast. Sure, there are frequent segments that irk me... but overall I am entertained (and I have fun critiquing them). I don't think I can read/watch/listen to anything I am passionate about without compromising in some way.

A lot of pop culture conversations are pure drivel (weak evidence to support claims), anyway, so *by their very nature* they will annoy a certain segment of their audience.

Very few people can produce a large *quantity* of high *caliber* content.... (Pat & Ian do not...just to be clear)

Techmoan (YouTube) is someone who never annoys me.  I love his stuff. But he doesn't deal with the hyper-opinionated-shitefest that surrounds video game conversations. So, he has it easy.



BACK ON TOPIC, FOR REAL: I just realized this thread was supposed to be about the viability of TG-16...

Look at the early PCE releases from the first 2 years (1987-89)...sadly, there are NOT many missed opportunities for *killer* games to localize for the NA market. This is sobering, because it means that releasing the TG-16 earlier = weaker library.

And as most folks know, the library of games will make or break a system.

Now, contrast this with NES: some of the best games, from huge franchises, were being released to huge fanfare circa 1987-1991...

SMS is a non-entity (sorry, I lived in a pro-SMS area and it was still struggling...even with local SMS rentals and a bunch of friends with SMS).

BOTTOMLINE: There weren't enough NA-friendly games in PCE library during 1987-1988 to bring over (to TG-16) sooner *and* to have sustained  *steady stream* of quality games.

* Localization of RPGs was time-consuming, expensive and risky.

* could Tengen have been a key ally in beefing up TG-16 library? Possibly, but I don't see any *killer games* ... or *system sellers*  Plus, Tengen would have to quickly pump them out before Lawsuit a la mode Nintendo. 

* could an earlier TG-16 launch, accompanied by some success, generated more *awareness of the viability of a NA market* for NA & JP developers? Sure. Could this have spurred PCE developers to prioritize games that appealed to both JP and NA markets? Sure. This is the scenario that might have actually changed TG-16's fate, IMHO, but it is an unlikely scenario. Plus, NA developers were mostly shite (Zeta's point cannot be ignored).

* even if TG-16 had modest success in 1988 (1-year headstart)...SEGA would have pushed hard with its familiar brands + IP + "we aren't for kiddies" marketing to target key demographics...

* so, TG-16 still ends up in third place, but perhaps not a *super-distant* third place. But still distant. Actually, we have been using the wrong analogy. SEGA (and Nintendo) ran LAPS AROUND our humble TG-16. Even if TG-16's fortunes had been better, that short lead would have become meaningless by 1990-1991.

* Unless, of course, FEKA executives (e.g. Kalinske) were working for NEC. Now *that* is the alternate history I would like to see.

[Black Tiger]

The problem with these topics is that everyone always rehashes the same crap that actually happened instead of pointing out real changes that could or definitely would have had a dramatically different outcome.

An alternate reality whete NEC had their shit together and happenrd to make the right kinds of choices  wouldn't be bottlenecked by what the PC Engine in our reality has. If NEC and Hudson worked together from day one to make the PC Engine a worldwide success, they would have bankrolled all kinds of different games. NEC could have bought Nintendo or Capcom or Konami or bought exclusive rights to some of those major 3rd party publishers' games. If they hadn't screwed up early CD game developnent, they could have shipped an all-in-one only in 1987 or maybe even early and eaten some of the cost so that Sega couldn't sell the MD cheaper.

There are infinite scenarios where the PCE would have dominated North America. It makes no sense to start well into our timeline where it didn't and say, "even though it was already too late, releasing SFII' in 1994 would have changed everything!".

[ClodBuster]

Techmoan (YouTube) is someone who never annoys me. 

I agree with you.

[Otaking]

Techmoan (YouTube) is someone who never annoys me. 

I agree with you.

Not heard of him, I'll check him out.

[esteban]

Techmoan (YouTube) is someone who never annoys me. 

I agree with you.

Not heard of him, I'll check him out.

He is fantastic and has actually gotten *better* (muppets!)

The problem with these topics is that everyone always rehashes the same crap that actually happened instead of pointing out real changes that could or definitely would have had a dramatically different outcome.

An alternate reality whete NEC had their shit together and happenrd to make the right kinds of choices  wouldn't be bottlenecked by what the PC Engine in our reality has. If NEC and Hudson worked together from day one to make the PC Engine a worldwide success, they would have bankrolled all kinds of different games. NEC could have bought Nintendo or Capcom or Konami or bought exclusive rights to some of those major 3rd party publishers' games. If they hadn't screwed up early CD game developnent, they could have shipped an all-in-one only in 1987 or maybe even early and eaten some of the cost so that Sega couldn't sell the MD cheaper.

There are infinite scenarios where the PCE would have dominated North America. It makes no sense to start well into our timeline where it didn't and say, "even though it was already too late, releasing SFII' in 1994 would have changed everything!".

Agreed...I thought I had a few good suggestions for a realistic alternate reality

[Punch]

NE146 you could have saved the turbografx... why didn't you bring a controller adapter!

[NE146]

I didn't know of such a thing at the time or rather, I simply never came across one in the early 90s

Anyway it's all water under the bridge.. as of a few weeks ago I now have a region hacked Turbo Duo (thanks mickcris) with an Everdrive. Everdrive allows me to play games easily, while Region Hack allows me to shove in any of my old games (I still have all of them) if I ever felt like it.

[NightWolve]

Never heard of this techmoan either, but if he has esteban's seal of approval, I'll look him up some time.

[Lost Monkey]

I didn't know of such a thing at the time or rather, I simply never came across one in the early 90s

Anyway it's all water under the bridge.. as of a few weeks ago I now have a region hacked Turbo Duo (thanks mickcris) with an Everdrive. Everdrive allows me to play games easily, while Region Hack allows me to shove in any of my old games (I still have all of them) if I ever felt like it.

When are you going to set up your avatar?

[esteban]

I didn't know of such a thing at the time or rather, I simply never came across one in the early 90s

Anyway it's all water under the bridge.. as of a few weeks ago I now have a region hacked Turbo Duo (thanks mickcris) with an Everdrive. Everdrive allows me to play games easily, while Region Hack allows me to shove in any of my old games (I still have all of them) if I ever felt like it.

Well, to piggy-back off your experiences: I was a loyal TG16/TG-CD supporter (I didn't get TG-CD when it launched, but I bought a floor model after it spent 3-6+ months failing to generate too many additional sales at a local shop). 

Anyway, I wanted to buy the Super System Card ASAP when brochures were sent out.

I WAS DENIED EVERY TIME I CALLED.

I don't know what the issue was, but I was repeatedly told that "it wasn't available" or "not taking orders".... maybe I *was* too early, but I *never* did get that card.

I tried for months and months.

This, to me, was a colossal failure—I wanted to play the new games...I was *trying to give them my money* and hitting a brick wall. I never got a date for availability, or a clear explanation. 

I finally gave up. My consoles were at my parent's house. I was in an apt at college, new ways to spend money. New priorities (I still managed to waste away the money I budgeted for food at the arcade).

COMMON THEME:  We both were so close to having *FUN*, but held back by our ignorance. Even writing this post, I am annoyed. I wish it was "water under the bridge",  but I still can't figure out why I gave up. Eventually, my brother got a DUO...