Author Topic: [SOLVED] PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?  (Read 1285 times)

beepinghazel

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[SOLVED] PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« on: November 11, 2016, 05:54:20 PM »
Hi, first post here. I recently purchased a PC Engine Duo that would "not play disc games". The system itself works fine via composite out and there's audio through the headphone jack. The laser would not move on the rails or make any noise. I owned a TurboGrafx-16 as a kid and always thought the Duo systems were really cool.

I did a full cap replacement and replaced the laser with a new HOP-M3 unit. Once that was done, I tested with a legit copy of JP Valis IV and a retail audio CD from the 90s. Neither of the discs appeared to be recognized ("Please set disc") but the laser unit would jiggle a bit after hitting Run. The rails are lubricated using some of the excess from the old HOP-M3. The motor that moves the laser along the rails works properly - it spins indefinitely if I remove the gear that actually moves the laser towards the "stop" switch.

I then cleaned the pots with electrical contact cleaner. With the power off, I then measured VR102 and VR104 with my measuring tool and I could get values of 1-10k Ohm on VR102 and then 1-20k Ohm on VR104, respectively. I do see voltage going into the CD unit with the main power turned on (after hitting Run); 3v, 3v, 10v, 10v from left to right.

I tried adjusting the pots using the guides on the site (mainly VR102 and VR104), but neither caused the CD to spin. From what I understand, the CD will not spin until the laser has focused on the CD (please correct me if this is incorrect). I tried adjusting a few degrees at a time on VR102, hit Run, waited, reset the unit via Start-Run, rinse, repeat. I then reset VR102 to 1k Ohm and tried with VR104. No change, still get the "Please set disc" and the CD does not spin. I don't have the magnetic "cap" from the lid in place, I'm not sure if that makes a difference?

When the laser unit jiggles a bit left-to-right, I don't hear the laser attempting to focus or move up/down vertically like on a PlayStation 1 - I assume this is because it's all done by hand via the VR10x pots? The only thing I hear is the initial jiggle. The unit does reset itself to it's initial state (far left) if I move it down the rails away from the small "stop" switch. The same thing happens when I swap out for the old HOP-M3 unit. Continuity seems good between the board and the HOP-M3 connections.

Any suggestions as to how to proceed from here, or what to test to confirm everything is operating normally?

Random aside: I've seen references to IC105, IC106 and IC501 failures.

Thanks for your help!

edit: One thing to note - At no time do I see a reddish light coming from the laser lens itself. The laser lens always appears to be clear. I've checked visually and using my phone camera (in case there was a refresh rate/low light level that my eye couldn't detect).

edit 2: I found a post mentioning that the laser unit should be trying to focus on the CD. My unit doesn't ever try to focus on the CD (moving the laser lens vertically up-and-down). It just wiggles left-and-right quickly on the rails and stops. I also don't see any light coming from the laser at all. This suggests to me that maybe one of the ICs is bad? Is there any way to test IC105, IC106 and IC501 with a multimeter? I don't have an oscilloscope, unfortunately.

edit3: I do see 5v on pin1 of IC501. Not sure if that means anything. I've gone through and cleaned any corrosion, including underneath the card slot.

EDIT 4: 12/01 update; The system works perfectly after fixing R199 and replacing the two BA6290. Prior to replacing these, the system was washed in soap/water. I also applied lithium grease to the CD lens rails. The system now runs stable and really well. I ended up 3D printing a replacement HuCard door since mine was missing.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 09:29:27 AM by beepinghazel »

thesteve

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2016, 07:26:15 PM »
ok it sounds like everything is coming up except the laser and RF amp, but lets make sure
lid up press run (should say to close cover)
lid down press run (light on, laser on, laser moves to switch and back off switch)
open lid when light on (light goes off) close lid
press run again without resetting (same as first time)
that confirms most of the servo communications
go through the whole process noting anything that doesnt follow and post results

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2016, 08:28:15 AM »
[ul][li]lid up press run (should say to close cover) - OK[/li][li]lid down press run (light on, laser on, laser moves to switch and back off switch) - NOT OK. Red LED OK, laser moves to switch and back off OK. BAD: No laser light from lens and it does not attempt to focus (vertical up/down).[/li][li]open lid when light on (light goes off) close lid: OK. Red LED turns on, but turns off when the lid button is open.[/li][li]press run again without resetting (same as first time): OK. "Please Close Cover".[/li][/ul]
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 02:52:39 PM by beepinghazel »

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2016, 09:48:08 AM »
Off the CXD1167Q

with multimeter:
5v on pin 33, pin 73

with logic probe:

pin13 - Nothing until hit RUN, then data (H/L pulsing), then stays high with low pulses. Reset to nothing when system is reset via Run-Select.

pin14 - always high, then pulses of low when you hit run

pin15 - nothing, then with you hit RUN, high/low pulses, then stays low

« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 02:53:33 PM by beepinghazel »

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 06:19:32 AM »
I'm still really confused as to why the HOP-M3 doesn't light up with a laser light and why the lens doesn't move up and down to try to focus.

Last night tested these for continuity on IC501 (with my multimeter) and they all look OK.

94   RST
95   GND
96   IC105 PIN46   [SCSI DATA
97   IC105 PIN45   [SCSI DATA
98   IC105 PIN44   [SCSI DATA
99   IC105 PIN43   [SCSI DATA
100   IC105 PIN42   [SCSI DATA
101   IC105 PIN41   [SCSI DATA
102   IC105 PIN39   [SCSI DATA
103   IC105 PIN38   [SCSI DATA
104   NC
105   -> IC103 PIN21
106   <- IC103 RESISTOR PIN22
107   IC105 PIN86   CD DATA (SERIAL)
108   IC105 PIN88
109   IC103 RESISTOR PIN69
110   IC103 PIN24 + IC104 PIN20
111   IC103 RESISTOR PIN77
112   GND
113   IC104 PIN19
114   IC105 RESISTOR PIN57
115   IC105 RESISTOR PIN33
116   IC105 RESISTOR PIN55
117   IC105 RESISTOR PIN35+54
118   IC105 RESISTOR PIN32
119   IC105 RESISTOR PIN56
120   GND

thesteve

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 10:22:29 AM »
We kinda established that 105 to 501 was good
The RF amp CXA1081 controls the laser and sets the focus status (check around it)

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 12:58:30 PM »
Thank you so much for your help so far. This has been a great learning experience and I would really love to get this thing working.

Edit: did some testing around the CXA1082 by mistake, didn't realize CXA1081 was under the board.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 02:38:55 PM by beepinghazel »

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2016, 04:00:24 PM »
From my multimeter:

2.5V each on pin 10 & 14, 5v on pin 30 of CXA1081
Continuity on the CXA1081 pins to the board trace holes look OK.

Reading from the CXA1081 (on the bottom of the board) using my logic probe connected to 5v:

pin 1-4, nothing
pin 5 is high, no change on RUN
pin 6 low, no change on RUN
7-15, nothing, no change on RUN
pin 16 high, no change on RUN
pin 17 low, no change on RUN
pin 18 high, no change on RUN
pin 19 high, no change on RUN
pin 20 nothing
pin 21 low, no change on RUN
pin 22 low, high pulse on run, then high pulse on "Please Set Disc"
pin 23, 24 nothing
pin 25 low, no change on RUN
pin 26 nothing
pin 27 H/L (no pulsing, just H/L on my logic probe)
pin 28 low, no change on RUN
pin 29 nothing
pin 30 high, no change on RUN
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 02:06:04 PM by beepinghazel »

thesteve

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2016, 08:26:59 AM »
Pin29 is your issue
It should be getting a signal to turn on the laser

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2016, 12:11:32 PM »
That was it, I have a laser now! (But no focusing by the lens.)

R199 (4.7k) had some serious corrosion under it. It didn't have continuity between it and it's test points. So much in fact, that as soon as I started soldering the resistor off to clean it the pads came right off with it. I've got things wired up now with a temporary resistor and the laser light comes on properly.

R199 sits between pin 29 on the CXA1081 and pin 63 of D78C14GF (IC104).

I don't see/hear the laser trying to focus vertically up/down like I think it's supposed to.

Thanks so much! Where to go from here?

Edit: going to guess CXA1082 (IC102) Pin 5 (focus drive output) - this pin does three long H before the system generates an error. It's trying to focus the lens?

Edit 2: The three long High long pulses from CXA1082 (IC102) Pin 5 make it to one end of R133 (1002 marking, 10kΩ) but I don't see the pulses on the other side of the resistor. The other side of R133 just sits H, no change on RUN (at 7v). The 1002-marked resistors all measure in the 8.5-9.5kΩ range when measured on the board.


Edit 3: Following (but not connected to?) R133, I end up at Pin 9 of the top-of-board BA6290A (IC109), and I'm measuring 7V there. When I hit RUN, I see the voltage drop to ~6V and spike three times slowly to ~7.5V. I couldn't figure out how to trace this to a pin that leads to the HOP-M3. I also couldn't use my logic probe because I don't know where to get 7V from the mainboard. Should this be 5V? See Edit 4, which may explain why things look weird here.

Edit 4: The components under the (bottom of board) BA6290A chip - R294, C294, R293, C293 appear to be missing? Can anyone confirm whether these should be present and what values they should be? 
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 05:06:17 PM by beepinghazel »

thesteve

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 05:19:39 AM »
Those missing are normal
The BA6290 is a current input chip, so you won't really see a voltage shift on its inputs
It's outputs go directly to the laser

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 07:15:13 AM »
Should I be looking around CXA1082 (IC102) for anything that could interfere with the laser lens not focusing up/down? Or somewhere else? I checked a number of traces but didn't find anything obvious (I'm hunting blind).

Do you know what pins/chips are responsible for the laser lens moving up/down vertically?

Thank you again so much for your help.

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 02:21:21 PM »
Decided to test a few things.

Using Elenco LP900 Logic probe (forgot to mention that previously).

Unless specified, assume no change on logic probe and no voltage change on multimeter (when the RUN button is hit).

ba6290A bottom of board
pin1 11.1v ("Vcc") H
pin2 5.6v H
pin3 5.6v H
pin4 5.6v H
pin5 5.6v H
pin6 5.6v H
pin7 L, "mute" (per spec sheet)
pin8 5.6v H
pin9 5.6v H
pin10 5.6v H
pin11 5.6v H
pin12 GND, L

Short pin5 and R147 (by accident.. heh), and it spins the CD and moves the head.

ba6290a top of board

pin1 11.1v ("Vcc") H
pin2 10.1v H
pin3 10.1v H
pin4 10.1v H
pin5 7.1V, drops to 6.6V three times when hit RUN. H no change on probe.
pin6 5.6v H
pin7 No signal from probe, "mute" (per spec sheet)
pin8 4.6v H
pin9 2.6v No signal from probe
pin10 2.6v No signal from probe
pin11 2.6v No signal from probe
pin12 GND, L

black CD drive head left-to-right motor connector (pin 1-7, L to R)
pin1 5.6v H
pin2 5.6v H
pin3 0v L
pin4 0v L, two pulses H resetting head
pin5 1.8v H, two pulses L resetting head
pin6 5.5v, H, two pulses L resetting head
pin7 5.6v H

white HOPM3 connector (pin 1-8, L to R)
pin1 2.5v
pin2 2.5v
pin3 5v H
pin4 2.5v
pin5 2.5v
pin6 2.5v
pin7 2.5v
pin8 2.5v

red HOPM3 connector (pin 1-8, L to R)
pin1 10v H
pin2 10v H
pin3 2.5v
pin4 2.5v
pin5 0v L
pin6 0v L
pin7 ~1v, jumps to 1.75v between head resets, then back to 0v
pin8 0v L
« Last Edit: November 22, 2016, 02:30:11 PM by beepinghazel »

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 03:55:18 PM »
A few interesting observations (which match the datasheet) -

When I apply my logic probe:
IC102 pin38 makes the cd spin
IC102 pin15 makes the head move right
IC102 pin29 makes the head not move at all

Three H pulses from IC102 pin5 lead to -> R133 (& adjacent side of R145)-> pin 5 of top-board ba6290a.

beepinghazel

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Re: PC Engine Duo - No disc spin: not pots and new laser?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2016, 01:51:15 PM »
Hope everyone (in the US) had a great Thanksgiving.

Just noticed L101. Does this look normal?