Super Raiden 25th Anniversary Project...

[ParanoiaDragon]

Yikes, you're right!  I was thinking there was a 2nd boss tune, plus I was mixing it up with Super Raiden's soundtrack which has a few extra tracks I think for the extra levels....of which I've never gotten anywhere close to getting to!

Offtopic, anyone know if there's ever been a complete remix of Darius ost?  I found one soundtrack that has a neat techno version of the first level, but I don't think there's an entire remixed soundtrack.

[Windcharger]

Yea, I've thought about including a 3rd soundtrack on the disc, and yea, I'd need to go back through and strategically shorten all the existing tracks in order to make room for it.  The best way I know of would be to enable an invulnerability cheat and let each stage just free-scroll and time it with a stopwatch or something... write down all the times for each stage and shorten each track accordingly.  A lot of work, but possibly worth it. 

So, I did the work for ya...   

-Super Raiden Level Music & Maximum Play Times-
Level 1: Gallantry
1:46
Level 2: Lightning War
2:48
Level 3: Rough & Tumble
2:10
Level 4: Gallantry
3:07
Level 5: Fighting Thunder
3:01
Level 6: Rough & Tumble
3:05
Level 7: Gallantry (What the heck?!? This should be Lightning War)
2:17
Level 8: Fighting Thunder
3:03
Level 9: (and boss music isn't Go to Blazes)
3:05
Level 10: ? (and boss music isn't Go to Blazes again, but also different from level 9)
5:06  (this level's song actually loops the track around 3:32 in game)

So it looks like you'd at least need:
3:07 for Gallantry
2:48 for Lightning War
3:05 for Rough & Tumble
3:03 for Fighting Thunder

Suffice it to say, a 700MB - 80 minute CD-R would help a lot.  Also, were you planning on leaving level 9 and 10 music as is since it has no other contemporaries?

[spenoza]

Yuck, I don't like those 25th anniversary remixes. They're kinda shite.

[fragmare]

Yea, I've thought about including a 3rd soundtrack on the disc, and yea, I'd need to go back through and strategically shorten all the existing tracks in order to make room for it.  The best way I know of would be to enable an invulnerability cheat and let each stage just free-scroll and time it with a stopwatch or something... write down all the times for each stage and shorten each track accordingly.  A lot of work, but possibly worth it. 

So, I did the work for ya...   

-Super Raiden Level Music & Maximum Play Times-
Level 1: Gallantry
1:46
Level 2: Lightning War
2:48
Level 3: Rough & Tumble
2:10
Level 4: Gallantry
3:07
Level 5: Fighting Thunder
3:01
Level 6: Rough & Tumble
3:05
Level 7: Gallantry (What the heck?!? This should be Lightning War)
2:17
Level 8: Fighting Thunder
3:03
Level 9: (and boss music isn't Go to Blazes)
3:05
Level 10: ? (and boss music isn't Go to Blazes again, but also different from level 9)
5:06  (this level's song actually loops the track around 3:32 in game)

So it looks like you'd at least need:
3:07 for Gallantry
2:48 for Lightning War
3:05 for Rough & Tumble
3:03 for Fighting Thunder

Suffice it to say, a 700MB - 80 minute CD-R would help a lot.  Also, were you planning on leaving level 9 and 10 music as is since it has no other contemporaries?

Thanks!  I was looking at this last night and with the length of the stages, some of the tracks as-is aren't long enough, so shortening them would just make them loop earlier in the stage... not that it would be THAT terrible, but the half second or so of silence is always a little awkward lol.  Anyway, if anything, some of the tracks could stand to be LENGTHENED.

HOWEVER... If I remove the duplicate ISO data track, I end up with a little less than 49 minutes worth of total audio/data on the disc.  This would give about ~25 minutes worth of space on the disc for additional audio (presuming a 74 minute disc).  I would imagine that would be enough for a 3rd soundtrack.

The original Super Raiden soundtrack had four extra tracks.  One each for Stage 9 and 10, a Stage 9 boss track, and a Stage 10 boss track.  Since this project uses the original arcade OST or derivatives thereof, I've addressed the additional stages/bosses by using music tracks from Raiden II.  Namely 'Raiden II Stage 6 - Decisive Battle', 'Raiden II Stage 7 - Flap Toward Hope', and 'Raiden II Boss - Metal Storm' for the final boss (The Stage 9 boss now just uses Go To Blazes, iirc).  This presents a bit of a conundrum when adding a 3rd soundtrack, which is - Any soundtracks added must accommodate for the two extra stages and boss music somehow.  That's all fine as long as the source material for the new soundtrack also contains a Raiden II soundtrack as well (like the PS1 Raiden Project OST, or the 25th Anniversary tracks).  But what if the soundtrack to be added has no Raiden II equivalent?  How, then, would you address the extra tracks needed and still end up with an overall OST that is still cohesive sounding?  That's the problem you start butting up against if you consider adding the HuCard PSG tunes or the FM Towns Marty OST.  The logical solution would be to simply add the original Super Raiden OST back in as the 3rd OST, but honestly... eh, I've never been a fan of Super Raiden OST.  I think a better solution would be to use the PS1 Raiden Project OST.  It seems to be a crowd pleaser anyway.  Plus it contains the full Raiden II soundtrack too, so it's got the extra stage/boss tracks covered.

The level 7 music in the Super Raiden OST is Gallantry, not Lightning War?!  WTF?  This might have already been corrected when tom and I worked on this project a while back... I'll have to play test it and see.

[esteban]

fragmare:

MY DREAM: User can select a soundtrack (1/3 choices) at start of game. However, at any point in game, user can select an "alternate" version of the tune (cycling through three choices). HyperNova Blast allows you to pause game and select a different track. I was thinking a more *limited* selection (based on the stage) would be more appropriate and allows folks to directly compare the *same* track (obviously, stages 9/10 are unique).

Another dream would be a "random soundtrack" option that automatically selects the version for each stage.

NOTE: the music for each stage remains faithful to original...but the *version* of that song would be randomly (or manually) selected.

Also...

(1) Did you like the FM-TOWNS tunes that windcharger posted? I never heard them before... kinda interesting, IMHO. I have to listen to them again (4th time).

(2) Stage 9&10...  what about a fan remix or something pulled from a future Raiden release? We could work together to find a track that "matches" the mood and essence of _______ (whatever soundtrack you pick that lacks extra tracks). 

(3) I have Raiden Project PlayStation and I think the soundtracks are, indeed, universally enjoyed. So, that's safe. But is it too safe? As in...too well-known? I'm just being Devil's Advocate, I don't have a problem either way. I just figured that it might be worthwhile to examine the pros/cons of popular vs obscure soundtrack.

 

[ccovell]

Well, there are always the few extra songs from Raiden DX.

[spenoza]

This is one of those times I wish OCREMIX had done a remix album for this game.

[fragmare]

fragmare:

MY DREAM: User can select a soundtrack (1/3 choices) at start of game. However, at any point in game, user can select an "alternate" version of the tune (cycling through three choices). HyperNova Blast allows you to pause game and select a different track. I was thinking a more *limited* selection (based on the stage) would be more appropriate and allows folks to directly compare the *same* track (obviously, stages 9/10 are unique).

Another dream would be a "random soundtrack" option that automatically selects the version for each stage.

NOTE: the music for each stage remains faithful to original...but the *version* of that song would be randomly (or manually) selected.

Also...

(1) Did you like the FM-TOWNS tunes that windcharger posted? I never heard them before... kinda interesting, IMHO. I have to listen to them again (4th time).

(2) Stage 9&10...  what about a fan remix or something pulled from a future Raiden release? We could work together to find a track that "matches" the mood and essence of _______ (whatever soundtrack you pick that lacks extra tracks). 

(3) I have Raiden Project PlayStation and I think the soundtracks are, indeed, universally enjoyed. So, that's safe. But is it too safe? As in...too well-known? I'm just being Devil's Advocate, I don't have a problem either way. I just figured that it might be worthwhile to examine the pros/cons of popular vs obscure soundtrack.

 

The whole idea of randomizing/switching tracks on-the-fly is neat, but i think it might require a little too much in-game RAM overhead to pull off, unless you wanted to switch the whole project over to the Turbo EverDrive or something like that.  Tom/Bonknuts would be the one to ask on that one.

1. Yea, the FM-Towns tracks are pretty nice... but if you go that route, what do you use for the extra stages/bosses?

2. Personally, I'd like to hear somebody do a decent HuC6280 PSG-ish rendition of the Raiden II tunes... preferably in a similar style to the HuCard Raiden OST.  I think that would be awesome to hear.  Remastering the HuCard PSG tunes probably wouldn't be a bad thing either... maybe add in a drum kit you can actually HEAR, haha... ahem.

3. Honestly, I'm open to ideas about a potential 3rd soundtrack.  I mean, the most viable option and the option that falls in line most with the way the disc is already set up is clearly the PS1 Project OST.  That being said, if someone has other ideas, I'm all ears. 

BTW, I removed the duplicate ISO track and added in the PS1 Project Tracks as a 3rd soundtrack and checked the disc length, and it was just over 70 minutes.  So, it would appear that a 3rd soundtrack, at least the PS1 Project OST, is doable... just barely.

[fragmare]

Level 7: Gallantry (What the heck?!? This should be Lightning War)

Ahhh, I just double-checked this and it's not yet been fixed!  Definitely on the to-do list now.  Good catch! 

[Windcharger]

Thanks!  I was looking at this last night and with the length of the stages, some of the tracks as-is aren't long enough, so shortening them would just make them loop earlier in the stage... not that it would be THAT terrible, but the half second or so of silence is always a little awkward lol.  Anyway, if anything, some of the tracks could stand to be LENGTHENED.

No prob!  This is a very cool project.     I actually had the idea to undertake something kind of similar eventually (albeit significantly smaller in scope) and changing out the Super Raiden OST (which never really clicked with me) for the FM Towns Marty OST.

HOWEVER... If I remove the duplicate ISO data track, I end up with a little less than 49 minutes worth of total audio/data on the disc.  This would give about ~25 minutes worth of space on the disc for additional audio (presuming a 74 minute disc).  I would imagine that would be enough for a 3rd soundtrack.

Awesome, and great idea removing the doubled data track.  I have patience when it comes to disc access for something this cool.  (Well, that and I own a Neo Geo CD, so...)  lol

The original Super Raiden soundtrack had four extra tracks.  One each for Stage 9 and 10, a Stage 9 boss track, and a Stage 10 boss track.  Since this project uses the original arcade OST or derivatives thereof, I've addressed the additional stages/bosses by using music tracks from Raiden II.  Namely 'Raiden II Stage 6 - Decisive Battle', 'Raiden II Stage 7 - Flap Toward Hope', and 'Raiden II Boss - Metal Storm' for the final boss (The Stage 9 boss now just uses Go To Blazes, iirc).

Ahh, great idea!  And not having to use a distinct song for the Stage 9 boss should free up quite a bit of space on disc between the OSTs.  Incidentally, what are your current ending credits music plans?

This presents a bit of a conundrum when adding a 3rd soundtrack, which is - Any soundtracks added must accommodate for the two extra stages and boss music somehow.  That's all fine as long as the source material for the new soundtrack also contains a Raiden II soundtrack as well (like the PS1 Raiden Project OST, or the 25th Anniversary tracks).  But what if the soundtrack to be added has no Raiden II equivalent?  How, then, would you address the extra tracks needed and still end up with an overall OST that is still cohesive sounding?  That's the problem you start butting up against if you consider adding the HuCard PSG tunes or the FM Towns Marty OST.  The logical solution would be to simply add the original Super Raiden OST back in as the 3rd OST, but honestly... eh, I've never been a fan of Super Raiden OST.  I think a better solution would be to use the PS1 Raiden Project OST.  It seems to be a crowd pleaser anyway.  Plus it contains the full Raiden II soundtrack too, so it's got the extra stage/boss tracks covered.

I completely agree regarding the Super Raiden OST.  It's not so much that it's bad as I just feel that it was a significant missed opportunity by Hudson to do something truly great here.  They took so many creative liberties with many elements in the core composition that it's actually hard at times for me to quickly identity some of the songs.  (Although I do kinda like Super Raiden's version of Rough & Tumble, most of the exclusive levels songs compositionally, and I suppose Go to Blazes sounds sufficiently ominous enough.)

Regarding maintaining sound cohesion for the extra stages, good point.  I think I was originally assuming that since you had plans to make these stages optional coupled with the fact that there are no other known versions of these songs (has anyone found any?) that the Super Raiden originals would just be used.  That being said, I really like your creative idea to use Raiden II songs in their place.  Although... if you did leave the originals in place for all OSTs it could free up even more space for possibly a 4th OST!  lol  j/k 

I do agree that using the PS1 Raiden Project OST is a great idea as it is my second favorite Raiden OST with the FM Towns OST just edging it out slightly IMHO mostly due to the additional compositional elements, and being more true to what I imagine a redbook version of the arcade would actually sound like.  This would definitely work, and I'm glad to hear the PS1 OST is generally so well received as I have spent countless hours with it playing in the background...

The level 7 music in the Super Raiden OST is Gallantry, not Lightning War?!  WTF?  This might have already been corrected when tom and I worked on this project a while back... I'll have to play test it and see.

Ikr?!  I can't believe I never really noticed this before (or if I did, forgot about it) as I would normally pick up on something like that immediately.   

[Windcharger]

(1) Did you like the FM-TOWNS tunes that windcharger posted? I never heard them before... kinda interesting, IMHO. I have to listen to them again (4th time).

Have they grown on you yet?  Inquiring minds want to know.   

(2) Stage 9&10...  what about a fan remix or something pulled from a future Raiden release? We could work together to find a track that "matches" the mood and essence of _______ (whatever soundtrack you pick that lacks extra tracks). 

Interesting idea.  I wonder if we'd be able to find enough songs that could maintain sound cohesion with themselves (assuming they're from different sources) along with the OST that was lacking these tracks.

(3) I have Raiden Project PlayStation and I think the soundtracks are, indeed, universally enjoyed. So, that's safe. But is it too safe? As in...too well-known? I'm just being Devil's Advocate, I don't have a problem either way. I just figured that it might be worthwhile to examine the pros/cons of popular vs obscure soundtrack.

An excellent point, but IMHO if it's between the PS1 arranged and FM Towns CD OSTs it's a win/win situation anyway.    Does anyone have any other ideas or know of any spiffy Raiden OSTs that we may be overlooking?

[Windcharger]

Well, there are always the few extra songs from Raiden DX.

Oh, that's a good idea too.  Any tracks in particular that you were thinking of?

[Windcharger]

1. Yea, the FM-Towns tracks are pretty nice... but if you go that route, what do you use for the extra stages/bosses?

I do think that Chris's idea of possibly using some Raiden DX tracks has merit if adequate matches could be found.  I'm less familiar with that OST so I haven't really looked.

2. Personally, I'd like to hear somebody do a decent HuC6280 PSG-ish rendition of the Raiden II tunes... preferably in a similar style to the HuCard Raiden OST.  I think that would be awesome to hear.  Remastering the HuCard PSG tunes probably wouldn't be a bad thing either... maybe add in a drum kit you can actually HEAR, haha... ahem.

Haha!  This is particularly funny for me as I actually have active plans to cover the first 2 levels of Raiden II in the future.  If this was to be mastered for redbook I think it would be cool to mimic the use of the 7th ADPCM channel for the drums thus freeing up one of the other six WSG channels for other use.  Of course the huge problem with this is there is no way I could create covers for the entire Raiden II OST by April of next year... unless maybe if someone could find freely usable MIDIs that I could heavily modify for every song in the OST so that I wouldn't have to start from scratch.  This would also assume that someone else would make the drum samples channel for every song to be spliced into the recording later (drums are not my forte), that the MIDI OSTs maintained compositional cohesion within themselves, and that people would like my covers of these in the first place.  lol  Pretty tall order...

BTW, I removed the duplicate ISO track and added in the PS1 Project Tracks as a 3rd soundtrack and checked the disc length, and it was just over 70 minutes.  So, it would appear that a 3rd soundtrack, at least the PS1 Project OST, is doable... just barely.

Whew!  Very nice!

[Windcharger]

Level 7: Gallantry (What the heck?!? This should be Lightning War)

Ahhh, I just double-checked this and it's not yet been fixed!  Definitely on the to-do list now.  Good catch! 

Awesome!  Thanks!   

[fragmare]

2. Personally, I'd like to hear somebody do a decent HuC6280 PSG-ish rendition of the Raiden II tunes... preferably in a similar style to the HuCard Raiden OST.  I think that would be awesome to hear.  Remastering the HuCard PSG tunes probably wouldn't be a bad thing either... maybe add in a drum kit you can actually HEAR, haha... ahem.

Haha!  This is particularly funny for me as I actually have active plans to cover the first 2 levels of Raiden II in the future.  If this was to be mastered for redbook I think it would be cool to mimic the use of the 7th ADPCM channel for the drums thus freeing up one of the other six WSG channels for other use.  Of course the huge problem with this is there is no way I could create covers for the entire Raiden II OST by April of next year... unless maybe if someone could find freely usable MIDIs that I could heavily modify for every song in the OST so that I wouldn't have to start from scratch.  This would also assume that someone else would make the drum samples channel for every song to be spliced into the recording later (drums are not my forte), that the MIDI OSTs maintained compositional cohesion within themselves, and that people would like my covers of these in the first place.  lol  Pretty tall order...

Really, if someone were going to cover Raiden II tunes specifically to fill in the gaps on this project, they'd only need to create three... two normal stage tunes, plus the boss music.  If some Raiden II MIDIs would help, I found some here: http://www.khinsider.com/midi/arcade/raiden-ii  No stage 6 MIDI, though 

As for adding in drum tracks to the existing Raiden PSG tunes, that actually seems like it would be easy for someone who is musically talented in some way... I'm no musician by any means, but I managed to crudely "remaster" the PSG versions of Gallantry and Go To Blazes by adding a drum track in and EQ'ing them a bit.  Doesn't sound too bad, I think I got them to line up pretty nicely...

PSG Gallantry with drums added: https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/01-gallantry-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums

PSG Go To Blazes with drums added: https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/05-go-to-blazes-with-drums?in=user-716572978/sets/hucard-raiden-psg-with-drums