PCEWorks is back to making passable bootlegs and lots of them

[Black Tiger]

First there was yet another re-release of Sapphire without custom packaging, along with SFZ and Rockman, which both fooled enough people into paying thousands for. Now there are 5 more, with one game being sold for 120 Euros on its own.

Last time I checked, HappyConsoleGamer still had that PCEWorks ad up telling everyone that they're so great because "they don't make them look like the originals and would never do that".

The worst part is that even if I tried to make bootleg guides for all of them, collectards will still sell the known bootlegs to each other for hundreds of dollars as "the rarer second print versions".

[deubeul]

LIMITED PANTSU EDITION.
Seriously.

[Gypsy]

First there was yet another re-release of Sapphire without custom packaging, along with SFZ and Rockman, which both fooled enough people into paying thousands for. Now there are 5 more, with one game being sold for 120 Euros on its own.

Last time I checked, HappyConsoleGamer still had that PCEWorks ad up telling everyone that they're so great because "they don't make them look like the originals and would never do that".

The worst part is that even if I tried to make bootleg guides for all of them, collectards will still sell the known bootlegs to each other for hundreds of dollars as "the rarer second print versions".

Because it's not like rubber dildo LIED and originally claimed the Sapphires were legit or anything. f*ckfaces.

If I am remembering wrong someone can correct me, but I still dislike this shit either way.

[esteban]

f*ck me. We need someone who gets more than 19 views a video to help educate fellow video game enthusiasts (let's assume most potential buyers have sincere intentions...just for the sake of educating, not criticizing, folks).



I feel like making a PSA video, just for fun (because I feel motivated by this issue) but the reality is nobody will see it. But maybe we can ask Bucci, Redifer, CGM (jibbajabba?) et al. to spread the word.

SOMETIMES, I  worry that this effort might ultimately help Tobias sell MORE PRODUCT because too many people are indifferent about the issue... Or, sadly, too lazy to invest in learning about the issue to make an informed decision.

HOWEVER, it would be foolish not to try to educate folks. Otherwise, the HappyConsoleConsumers of YouTube will blindly promote Tobias.

[Gypsy]

f*ck me. We need someone who gets more than 19 views a video to help educate fellow video game enthusiasts (let's assume most potential buyers have sincere intentions...just for the sake of educating, not criticizing, folks).



I feel like making a PSA video, just for fun (because I feel motivated by this issue) but the reality is nobody will see it. But maybe we can ask Bucci, Redifer, CGM (jibbajabba?) et al. to spread the word.

SOMETIMES, I  worry that this effort might ultimately help Tobias sell MORE PRODUCT because too many people are indifferent about the issue... Or, sadly, too lazy to invest in learning about the issue to make an informed decision.

HOWEVER, it would be foolish not to try to educate folks. Otherwise, the HappyConsoleConsumers of YouTube will blindly promote Tobias.

I think this is a real issue. Of course Gamesack has a lot of reach, but if they talk about this, it will just draw even more attention to Tobias. For as many that will be outrage, there might be a multiple of that number that will just buy it because hurrdurr.

[SignOfZeta]

There are a lot of post-Napster collectards that don't really understand what "legit" means. Just as many comprehend but don't care. They want the most specialist rarer version and the legit game is just a boring single disc release with no energy drink. It's really hard to get through to these guys and explain that the version that just paid $300 for was made in the wrong continent decades after the game went permanently out of print.

Anyone who has ever spent a great deal of time pouring their creative soul into something and stuck with it through the boring and expensive stage of bringing it to mass production...you don't have to explain it to those guys and gals. They get it. It's the people who pretty much only...consume that are the issue. They just want more shit to buy forever and fake PCE games are as good at that as real ones. When the thing looks real they do not care because they don't know what "real" is.

So sadly I think you should get PCEFX shitlist favorite Pat the NES Punk to do a mini episode on it. I'm sure he's looking for topics/excuses to make more episodes anyway so I say give it a shot. He has lots of viewers and overall they are the ones that know what fake is.

[SignOfZeta]

 Btw, do you have any links to evidence or more info? I'm interested in this.

[elmer]

f*ck me. We need someone who gets more than 19 views a video to help educate fellow video game enthusiasts (let's assume most potential buyers have sincere intentions...just for the sake of educating, not criticizing, folks).

Educate people about what?

I don't think that this is going to be a popular sentiment, but I'm having a hard-time in maintaining my "outrage" in the face of the events here at PCEngineFX in the last year.

The general-consensus here seems to be that ignoring copyright and making personal copies of games by burning CDs or using a Turbo Everdrive is OK.

But, to keep the forum "legally clean", we're not supposed to put links to free digital downloads.

OTOH, we've now got a thread where "respected" forum members are charging money for unlicensed bootleg copies of HuCard games (breaking the same copyright law) and it's OK to put links to their site and ordering info, and people here seem to love them.

So the forum now seems to approve of bootlegged game production for money.

I understand that there is historical reason to dislike Tobias and PCEWorks (and recent-history at that with his release of translations), but IMHO, we've destroyed our standing to complain too-much about him by buying-and-selling-off old-stock of his CDs on this very forum.

We could still hold our heads up high when BlueBMW bought up Tobias's "flawed" Sapphire discs and gave them away for free ... but last year's selling ("to recoup costs") of the CDs showed that these days we're just complaining about the price, and not the bootlegging itself.

So, if the main complaint that's left is that Tobias charges more than people here think is fair for his "product", and that he's an absolute ass that has outright lied and tried to decieve people, and that he doesn't respect the wishes of translators ...

... then I suspect that it might be hard to find a YouTube "personality" to take up arms against him for a crusade that seems more "personal" than "moral-high-ground".

And, it's going to be hard to "educate fellow video game enthusiasts" as to why they should avoid clearly-marked bootlegged games, when we're all sitting there with cheap copies of his earlier CDs ... we'd just look like hypocrites.

[Black Tiger]

PCEWorks' "QUINTESSENTIAL BOOTLEGS" includes the latest revision to make his Sapphire counterfeit guide-proof:

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2016/11/03/quintessential-works/



Akumajo Dracula X "raw" version (no unique packaging):

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/akumajo-dracula-x/



Spriggan, Spriggan mkII, Steam Hearts, Nexzr, and Super Real Mahjong PII-III Custom Special, all without unique packaging or PCEWorks branding:

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2016/12/18/xmas-double-feature/


Plus recent additions like Dungeon Master Theron's Quest, Bomberman, another batch of Kaze Kiri/Sylphia/Renny Blaster/Fausette Amour without unique packing.

And, it's going to be hard to "educate fellow video game enthusiasts" as to why they should avoid clearly-marked bootlegged games, when we're all sitting there with cheap copies of his earlier CDs ... we'd just look like hypocrites.

The whole point of this thread is that he's gone back to making repros as close as he can to the originals without any indication that they're counterfeit. This has led to at least hundreds of people to pay hundreds of dollars or more for what they believed to be authentic copies of Sapphire, to the point where they were found in Japanese shops. If he's going about it the same as before, then he's been selling these as legit across the internet for a while already.

The moral aspect of whether selling bootlegs of any kind is a parallel issue. The bootleg HuCards are not passable whatsoever and if they stopped tomorrow, they wouldn't be flipped as authentic for years afterward.

[jtucci31]

Those Dracula X bootlegs make no effort to look any different whatsoever. What the f*ck. I'm so glad I already own a copy of the damn game, jesus christ.

I hate these things so much I haven't checked those FB groups in like months

[esteban]

And, it's going to be hard to "educate fellow video game enthusiasts" as to why they should avoid clearly-marked bootlegged games, when we're all sitting there with cheap copies of his earlier CDs ... we'd just look like hypocrites.

The whole point of this thread is that he's gone back to making repros as close as he can to the originals without any indication that they're counterfeit. This has led to at least hundreds of people to pay hundreds of dollars or more for what they believed to be authentic copies of Sapphire, to the point where they were found in Japanese shops. If he's going about it the same as before, then he's been selling these as legit across the internet for a while already.

The moral aspect of whether selling bootlegs of any kind is a parallel issue. The bootleg HuCards are not passable whatsoever and if they stopped tomorrow, they wouldn't be flipped as authentic for years afterward.

Indeed, there are multiple issues with PCEWorks that folks should be educated on:

(1) Profiteering. Leaving aside the ethics of "reproductions" (and regardless of whether they are clearly labeled/marketed as such) we can address profiteering. I believe there is a moral distinction between (a) a fan selling a modest number of reproductions (labeled and marketed as such) at modest profit (that is, slightly above cost of materials/shipping + labor) vs. (b) a larger-scale business making massive profit (above cost of materials/labor).

(2) Deception/authenticity of product. Passing off bootleg discs as (a) original items or (b) legitimate/sanctioned pressings. As we know, this is a problem not only for initial purchaser, but for all subsequent reselling/purchasing of product. I would argue that even "PCEWorks-branded" releases present a problem because they have an "air of authenticity" to them... this is easily solved if all items are clearly labeled and marketed as contemporary reproductions (non-sanctioned by IP holder) and are easily identified as such. 

(3) Intellectual Property. The ethics of non-profit and/or for-profit reproductions of intellectual property is an important issue, but does not have to be central to a critique of Tobias/PCEWorks. I listed 1&2 above in an attempt to find "common ground" with "everyone", despite their own views on reproducing/distributing intellectual property without permission.

[elmer]

The whole point of this thread is that he's gone back to making repros as close as he can to the originals without any indication that they're counterfeit. This has led to at least hundreds of people to pay hundreds of dollars or more for what they believed to be authentic copies of Sapphire, to the point where they were found in Japanese shops. If he's going about it the same as before, then he's been selling these as legit across the internet for a while already.

Oh, crap, that does sound like he's up to his bad-old-tricks again. 

Now, both his manual and the CD istelf *do* have PCEWorks logos, see ...

https://pceworks.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/sapphire_3.jpg

But you can't tell from the *outside* that they're fake.

Sounds like a scam to target the CIB-sealed collectards, to me.

Those Dracula X bootlegs make no effort to look any different whatsoever. What the f*ck. I'm so glad I already own a copy of the damn game, jesus christ.

They come in a box that's totally-different to the normal PCE jewel-case, and they have a PCEWorks logo stamped on the CD ... how could any *careful* buyer mix them up?

[PunkicCyborg]

Educate people about what?

I don't think that this is going to be a popular sentiment, but I'm having a hard-time in maintaining my "outrage" in the face of the events here at PCEngineFX in the last year.

The general-consensus here seems to be that ignoring copyright and making personal copies of games by burning CDs or using a Turbo Everdrive is OK.

But, to keep the forum "legally clean", we're not supposed to put links to free digital downloads.

OTOH, we've now got a thread where "respected" forum members are charging money for unlicensed bootleg copies of HuCard games (breaking the same copyright law) and it's OK to put links to their site and ordering info, and people here seem to love them.

So the forum now seems to approve of bootlegged game production for money.

I understand that there is historical reason to dislike Tobias and PCEWorks (and recent-history at that with his release of translations), but IMHO, we've destroyed our standing to complain too-much about him by buying-and-selling-off old-stock of his CDs on this very forum.

We could still hold our heads up high when BlueBMW bought up Tobias's "flawed" Sapphire discs and gave them away for free ... but last year's selling ("to recoup costs") of the CDs showed that these days we're just complaining about the price, and not the bootlegging itself.

So, if the main complaint that's left is that Tobias charges more than people here think is fair for his "product", and that he's an absolute ass that has outright lied and tried to decieve people, and that he doesn't respect the wishes of translators ...

... then I suspect that it might be hard to find a YouTube "personality" to take up arms against him for a crusade that seems more "personal" than "moral-high-ground".

And, it's going to be hard to "educate fellow video game enthusiasts" as to why they should avoid clearly-marked bootlegged games, when we're all sitting there with cheap copies of his earlier CDs ... we'd just look like hypocrites.

Nailed it. These issues have really turned me away from the NEC groups here and on FB. I just don't get how some people are deemed ok to bootleg while others are not and people get straight up flamed and shamed on here and facebook groups for picking the wrong bootleggers to support. It's all the same. Nobody has the right to reproduce any of this stuff more so than anyone else

[esteban]

Nailed it. These issues have really turned me away from the NEC groups here and on FB. I just don't get how some people are deemed ok to bootleg while others are not and people get straight up flamed and shamed on here and facebook groups for picking the wrong bootleggers to support. It's all the same. Nobody has the right to reproduce any of this stuff more so than anyone else

It took me some time to finish my prior post, but read it. I think I addressed elmer's (and your) point.

Hint: You're both wrong! Just kidding   I was trying to establish common ground amongst all of us, Elmer and you included.

[Black Tiger]

Oh, crap, that does sound like he's up to his bad-old-tricks again. 

Now, both his manual and the CD istelf *do* have PCEWorks logos, see ...

https://pceworks.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/sapphire_3.jpg

But you can't tell from the *outside* that they're fake.

Sounds like a scam to target the CIB-sealed collectards, to me.

I couldn't see those new brandings when I looked on my phone. It's not as bad, but most sellers I've seen on yahoo.jp now just use a stock photo and the other PCEWorks branded bootlegs with non-unique packaging are selling on eBay for the same price or more ("NEW sealed!") than real copies. Part of the problem is that he purposely came up with his latest company name and designed the logo to look like something that would have been on PCE games bitd. Not putting stuff like "2016 REPRO" on the outside as people like Sparky does is intentional to make them passable and more valuable to resellers. Having the PCEWorks branding on non-unique packaging has also created a third market of collectards who view them as rarer and more valuable than originals.

My main concern with Tobias' products in general is the intent and success for many years to pass off bootlegs as real. The problem with his overall success and the lesser appeal of the titles with unique packaging, is that it encourages him to continue mixing the secondary market full of bootlegs being sold as real copies.

My second biggest concern is his brazen publishing and selling of hacks/translations/misc homebrew projects without permission and against the wishes of the project teams. He is only going to get fan project members in legal trouble and has already discouraged people from continuing with various PCE projects. The bootleg HuCards are only being sold loaded with fan projects when they have the permission of those who made them.

There is a world of difference between what turbokon & friends are doing and what Tobias is doing and the long term damage which has already been done. Because of the many consequences of Tobias' actions for so many years now, the ethics of selling bootlegs is only one of many issues, although it is still the only one when it comes to those bootleg HuCards. Even when people argue that the HuCards should be cheaper, Tobias' pricing is still that much less "fair".

Those Dracula X bootlegs make no effort to look any different whatsoever. What the f*ck. I'm so glad I already own a copy of the damn game, jesus christ.

They come in a box that's totally-different to the normal PCE jewel-case, and they have a PCEWorks logo stamped on the CD ... how could any *careful* buyer mix them up?

The new "raw" version looks just like an authentic sealed copy:

https://pceworks.wordpress.com/2016/11/02/akumajo-dracula-x/