Author Topic: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)  (Read 3363 times)

Arkhan

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2017, 06:44:38 AM »
And the cherry on the cake,in 2017 arkhan is doing musics on deflemask   :mrgreen:

Nope.  I'm not going to waste my time trying to compose music in a tracker.   If Doofymask lets you stick a MIDI in it, maybe I'll move a composition there from elsewhere.

Composing music in a tracker is painful. 
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Joe Redifer

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2017, 09:37:06 AM »
I've never heard the Turbo/PCE do drums like that before, with so much bass. Usually they're pretty thin.

fragmare

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2017, 01:56:07 PM »
Okay guys, how's this?  I went back and modified a few things.  Should be a bit more gritty and growly at the beginning.  Same link as before.

https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/tfiv-lsa-pc-engine-chiptune-cover

See?  This is why i wanted to warm up with a short little TFIV diddy before attempting something bigger.  I knew it was going to be hard to get to sound right.  I can't be having Metal Squad or whatever sounding like Steely Dan haha

It's doing the same thing I ran into with Atlantean, where it sounds gritty to the point where it then sounds muddy once the other stuff comes in.  It sounds good until the 0:17 mark basically, to me.


You have to like, envelope the sound so it filters it a bit.

Are you using multiple channels to create a doubling effect?   I would pan one a little left and one a little right.



Yea, I made another minor update.  That's about as gritty as I could get it and maintain decent stereo separation later in the song.  It's not just multiple channels.  I mean, there are multiple channels basically playing variations of the same thing... hell, 5/6 channels are all guitar most of the time.  I don't even know which ones are supposed to be the leads and what to call to call the other two that aren't the bass guitar.  I just tried to copy the notes/timing exactly from the original music and worry about getting the precise sound i wanted later.

To get the gravelly sound, I basically took one of the guitar channels (one with virtually no decay) and adjusted the arpeggio macro down an octave.  It kind of gives the two other plucky guitars something to overlay.  I've also got some moderately tricky stuff going on with the vibrato/pitch-slide effects to get a phasey type sound... no note offsets needed.  like the two plucky guitar channels both have a slight downard pitch slide, but the other guitars do not.  also, i have the vibrato effects set up differently for each guitar, so the frequencies play off each other and create that phasey/reverby sound.  in addition to that, one channel will ONLY vibrato up, while the another will ONLY vibrato down, while another vibrato both up AND down.  i got kind of creative haha


I've never heard the Turbo/PCE do drums like that before, with so much bass. Usually they're pretty thin.

I know, I was quite pleased with how the percussion turned out!  Very bassy and hard hitting.  Only three samples too!  And they sound virtually the same at 7-8KHz, which would be the sample rate you'd likely hear in a game.

It's interesting that the Genesis never even touches the DAC or the PCM channels for this track.  All the percussion is done by FM channel1 with three instruments.

Arkhan

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2017, 02:14:43 PM »
Yeah. getting super thick, gritty stuff on PCE isn't so easy.  Even Devil's Crush doesn't really do it despite being probably the most metal chiptune stuff the machine has ever seen.   

I'm wondering what it would sound like if the bass guitar was less gritty/distorted, and just more plucked and bassy (A sine wave with a plucky envelope). 

It might give the guitar riff more body without contributing to the distortion.   I'd also be curious if you dropped the guitars an octave in general.


Technically, the guitar is "the lead" since that's all there is, but from a musical standpoint, it's basically just a rhythm riff minus the bit at the end.   That's why I don't really call it a lead.   Lead is what happens in Metal Squad on top of the crap you're trying to figure out now, lol.


FM is great at getting dirgy sounds, and thick percussion without samples since it tends to get thick sounds with barely any effort.   
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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EvilEvoIX

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2017, 02:39:46 PM »
Very cool I love hearing this pump out on my Model 1.  Such great music.


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fragmare

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 03:39:25 AM »
Yeah. getting super thick, gritty stuff on PCE isn't so easy.  Even Devil's Crush doesn't really do it despite being probably the most metal chiptune stuff the machine has ever seen.   

I'm wondering what it would sound like if the bass guitar was less gritty/distorted, and just more plucked and bassy (A sine wave with a plucky envelope). 

It might give the guitar riff more body without contributing to the distortion.   I'd also be curious if you dropped the guitars an octave in general.


Technically, the guitar is "the lead" since that's all there is, but from a musical standpoint, it's basically just a rhythm riff minus the bit at the end.   That's why I don't really call it a lead.   Lead is what happens in Metal Squad on top of the crap you're trying to figure out now, lol.


FM is great at getting dirgy sounds, and thick percussion without samples since it tends to get thick sounds with barely any effort.   

I dunno man, Toshiaki Sakoda pretty much nailed the TG-16 Devil's Crush OST, imo.  I prefer it over Technosoft's Genesis version OST, which is saying something, because Technosoft were a bunch of chipmusic gods themselves.

I'm gonna keep screwing around with this.  I'll try what you said and whatever else comes to mind.  Maybe I'll stumble across a way to get that grindy sound.  The noise thing sounds promising, if it were mixed right... maybe the guitar riff could start out strong then fade, at the same time the noise riff is starting out quiet and fading in

Perhaps Michirin has come across some really gritty sounding PCE "guitar" in his chiptune travels?

Gredler

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 08:01:20 AM »
Keep recing it brother, this is so inspiring!

Michirin9801

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2017, 09:28:47 AM »
It sounds amazing mate ^^
Perhaps Michirin has come across some really gritty sounding PCE "guitar" in her chiptune travels?
Yeah I did, In fact, I was just about to recommend you a couple of waveforms you could use for your guitar, like this one from Xanadu 2:

15 00 10 31 00 31 31 31 09 00 31 15 31 21 31 31 00 00 31 31 31 11 31 31 00 31 01 20 31 31 31 31

Or this one that I've made myself:

28 22 19 24 30 24 01 17 15 09 02 01 03 06 00 05 25 28 30 28 20 00 12 27 29 21 04 02 13 25 04 03

Also, I'd have answered sooner, but I was too busy playing Dragon Quest VIII on my 3DS >w>
Such a great game!

Arkhan

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2017, 10:34:29 AM »
Devil's Crush on PCE has a great soundtrack, but the guitars really aren't that thick.   It's just one of those other things that PCE doesn't do.   It does *fantastic* guitar leads (Devil's Crush and Xanadu 2), but the dirgy rhythm stuff just gets lost in the shuffle or sounds like sampled midi guitars, lol.

They don't sound very guitar like, and lack that low end, ballsy, chugchugchug sound. 

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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ccovell

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2017, 08:26:16 PM »
Devil's Crush on PCE has a great soundtrack, but the guitars really aren't that thick.   
They don't sound very guitar like, and lack that low end, ballsy, chugchugchug sound.

Yes, true, but the other sound channels' growling & phasing help boost the "guitars" in Devil's Crush.

Arkhan

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2017, 08:42:51 PM »
yeah.  I mean I think what really helps the song sound like a guitar is the fact that the leads are clearly just 80s metal solos, so your brain just kinda goes "yeah that's a guitar".

What the PCE doesn't seem to do well for anything attempting to be a power chord, is the chuggy low end part.



That chugging note used as a pivot point and main down picked riff is something I wish PCE could do well.

lol, I mean it's basically this riff:


[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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touko

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2017, 01:28:30 AM »
i like Michirin9801's rude breaker,really good .

Michirin9801

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2017, 07:08:37 AM »
i like Michirin9801's rude breaker,really good .
Glad you do ^^

fragmare

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2017, 01:07:12 AM »
:shock:

 :shock:

 :shock:

 :D  :dance:  :clap:

How on earth are you getting that sound???

Please tell me that it's still deflemask, so that I can *hope* to reproduce it on real hardware!!!

That lead is great ... I'm *guessing* (in my musical ignorance), that it's 2-or-more channels with an octave offset + a detune.

However you've managed it ... the FM-style lead is great! And the bass is amazing.

Even though I'd prefer not to use it too much ... the 16KHz sampling is perfectly-fine to use in-game, and I'd love to hear what the track sounds like with 16KHz samples.

I'm probably greedy, but I also hope that you try out Michirin9801's PSG+noise style drums sometime, especially once we've got the wave-macro switching between wavetables/noise on any 1/60s.

But whatever ...  :shock:  :clap:

What's that you say?  PSG drums?  I just got done trying my hand at making some from scratch, and they turned out pretty nice.  I might need them for this new chiptune i'm working on, so I decided to stop and go make some all-purpose PSG percussion.  I just arranged it into a little drum tune to make it easier on the ears while i test it out.  The tom turned out excellent, I think!  :)

https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/huc6280-psg-drum-test

Michirin9801

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Re: Lightning Strikes... the PC-Engine?! (Thunder Force IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2017, 04:37:35 AM »
What's that you say?  PSG drums?  I just got done trying my hand at making some from scratch, and they turned out pretty nice.  I might need them for this new chiptune i'm working on, so I decided to stop and go make some all-purpose PSG percussion.  I just arranged it into a little drum tune to make it easier on the ears while i test it out.  The tom turned out excellent, I think!  :)

https://soundcloud.com/user-716572978/huc6280-psg-drum-test

These are allright, but I think you should try a different snare, using just noise for the snare makes them a little underwhelming... Try having a higher-pitched kick in the very beginning of the snare instrument and then switch to noise in the very next row, I do that and the results are, well, what you've heard in my music...

Here's an example of my drums:
MP3: http://orig03.deviantart.net/2222/f/2017/029/4/7/michirin_drums_example_by_michirin9801-dax5kf3.mp3

DMF: http://sta.sh/01393py9x56d