Author Topic: Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread  (Read 3160 times)

Keranu

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #90 on: October 07, 2006, 08:09:54 PM »
Quote from: "SignOfZeta"
Well, horrible or not, Mega Bomberman is still one of the MD's most colorful games. Make what you will of that...

Nah, I'd say there are far more colorful games for Genesis than Mega Bomberman. Sonics, Dynamite Headdy, and Socket immediately come to mind.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

sunteam_paul

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #91 on: October 07, 2006, 09:11:29 PM »
Quote from: "Odonadon"
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
And whats with the dissing of Altered Beast? I think it's a perfectly good conversion, on all systems.


From that statement I have to assume you haven't played the PCE version :)  Yeah it looks alright, but controls like shit - nowhere near as nice as the arcade and Genesis versions.  Collision detection seems to be far more sensitive too.

OD


Meh it isnt as smooth as the other versions, but the controls aren't game breaking by any means. I mean it's no Golden Axe.
But then again, I really enjoyed the Master System version of Altered Beast so who am I to argue  :?
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Keranu

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #92 on: October 07, 2006, 09:16:08 PM »
I didn't think the PCE version of Altered Beast was bad really. In fact I thought it was pretty cool when I first played it and thought it looked nicer than the Genesis version. The controls don't bother me too much, it's just annoying that you have to press UP to jump and jumping will feel all weird, is this fixed with a three button pad or whatever? The thing that bummed me the most though, honestly, was the lack of voice samples! :D Those are classic, Altered Beast just isn't Altered Beast without them.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

FM-77

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #93 on: October 08, 2006, 02:32:17 AM »
Quote from: "Keranu"
The thought came across my mind and that could be very true, but then again they did a good job with the Lords of Thunder port and even made a completely updated (or is it a whole different game?) version of Dungeon Explorer.
Dungeon Explorer it is a completely different game, yes - but Hudson didn't develop it. They published it but that's all. Westone (creators of the Wonder Boy / Monster World games) developed that game.

SignOfZeta

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #94 on: October 08, 2006, 04:28:02 AM »
Quote from: "Joe Redifer"
As for Mega Bomberman being one of the Genesis' most colorful games... if that screenshot posted above of the first level is any indication of what the rest of the game looks like, I'd definitely disagree.  I've seen Sega Master System games that look more colorful than that.


I'm not going by the screen shot, I'm going from memories of when I played the game back in the day. I remember being quite impressed with it, and liking it a lot. At the time I'd played a shitload of Genesis games. Since I worked at a video store that stocked just about everything, I played the vast majority of anything even slightly interesting from the 16-bit era. I had certainly played the Sonic games, and Dynamite Heady. I love Dynamite Heady.

Black Tiger

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #95 on: October 08, 2006, 07:31:23 AM »
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
And whats with the dissing of Altered Beast? I think it's a perfectly good conversion, on all systems.


Although I never made it too far through the PCE port, I think that both ports are okay, but should've been a lot better.



Quote from: "Odonadon"
Quote from: "sunteam_paul"
And whats with the dissing of Altered Beast? I think it's a perfectly good conversion, on all systems.


From that statement I have to assume you haven't played the PCE version :)  Yeah it looks alright, but controls like shit - nowhere near as nice as the arcade and Genesis versions.  Collision detection seems to be far more sensitive too.


Considering how the original game played to begin with, it couldn't have lost very much.  :wink:



Quote
Oh and Silpheed DOES use polygons, just play the game and you'll see what I mean. Go to the option screen and you can view and rotate any enemy or boss in the game that is made of polygons.


Although I don't doubt that the Sega-CD could produce the in-game polygon characters in realtime, I wouldn't be surprised if they still used prerendered sprites in the game, but realtime single models in the options mode.

The thing that first led me to believe that the in-game "sprites" were probably prerendered is the fact that they animate within a 2D plain and there is no reason to render them in realtime, not unless they're going to do loopty loops and fly at the screen and stuff.

I hope someone who can be trusted does hack into the game someday to lay this issue to rest.



Quote
I honestly would expect no less from Hudson. They would want to make sure their system looks better. There really isn't any reason for the Genesis version to look THAT horrible, and it is awful.


Why would Hudson sabatoge one of it's own games and sell it to try to make 'its own system' look better? This doesn't make any sense.

Why didn't they sabatoge all their SNES and NES games then?

And the Megadrive wasn't really ever even competing with the PC Engine after the beginning and certainly not that late in the systems' lives.

There isn't any reason for any substandard port to be as horrible as it may or may not be. I don't think console-wars subterfuge ever entered into a port's development.

Otherwise, "Super Sonic The Hedgehog" would've been a 5fps launch title for the SFC and the 12-color choppy Cranky Kong Country would've been the Genesis' first $200 68 meg cart. Plus, none of those crappy Sega to NES ports moved SMS systems.

If they were putting out PCE games as secret weapons, they wouldn't have let the developer of the Lords Of Thunder port do such a good job of getting so much color out of the Sega-CD version either.

Mega Bomberman was made primarily for the American audience(was it even released in Japan?), where the Turbo had already long since hopelessly lost out, Hudson had abandoned it's 'own' console years earlier and Bomberman '94 didn't exist.

What Hudson was actually doing with games like Mega Bomberman and Lords Of Thunder, was trying to make money in the USA off of it's large PCE library. Mega Bomberman (and Lords' especially) could only do harm to the Duo in America. And Hudson could care less.



Quote
As for Mega Bomberman being one of the Genesis' most colorful games... if that screenshot posted above of the first level is any indication of what the rest of the game looks like, I'd definitely disagree. I've seen Sega Master System games that look more colorful than that.


I don't think that Mega Bomberman has very good Genesis graphics, but it's unfair to compare it to a system as colorful as the SMS.

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GUTS

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #96 on: October 08, 2006, 07:32:12 AM »
Sega CD Dungeon Explorer is awesome, Westone rules.

Kaminari

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #97 on: October 08, 2006, 10:17:43 AM »
Quote from: "Seldane"
There are several Mega Drive games using polygons. It can natively handle polygons, unlike the SNES and PC Engine.


Nice piece of documented information here. So a PC Engine clocked at 7.2 MHz can't "natively" handle polygons, but an Atari XL crawling at 1.8 Mhz can run 3D effects nobody would deem possible?

Check out Numen and think about it again.

Not the best polygons ever, but for a computer that is almost 30 years old, that's not too shabby either. And considering both machines are based on the same CPU, in my opinion that says a lot about the untapped potential of the PCE in this domain.

Granted, the PCE was not designed by Jay Miner...!

Joe Redifer

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #98 on: October 08, 2006, 10:45:52 AM »
Quote
And whats with the dissing of Altered Beast? I think it's a perfectly good conversion, on all systems.


As to be expected, my comments about Altered Beast are the definitive ones.  So CLICK HERE to read my reviews on ALL versions of Altered Beast.  That's right I review them all: Arcade, Genesis, Sega Master System, NES (Famicom), PC Engine (Both HuCard and CD-ROM), GameBoy Advance, and even the PS2 version.  Click and read NOW!

nodtveidt

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #99 on: October 08, 2006, 10:53:21 AM »
The way I see it...the PCE port of ALtered Beast is terrible. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the Genesis port buries the PCE port many times over. I've actually played through and beaten the Genesis port, yet I couldn't even get through the first level of the PCE port due to the terribly shitty controls and haphazard coldet that rivals Impossamole. However, it's almost a moot point as far as I'm concerned...a crap port of a rather lackluster and dull game isn't really going to scar my experience...but someone still has some serious explaining to do for the exceptionally shitty port of Golden Axe to the PCE.

sunteam_paul

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #100 on: October 08, 2006, 10:59:05 AM »
Quote from: "Joe Redifer"
Quote
And whats with the dissing of Altered Beast? I think it's a perfectly good conversion, on all systems.


As to be expected, my comments about Altered Beast are the definitive ones.  So CLICK HERE to read my reviews on ALL versions of Altered Beast.  That's right I review them all: Arcade, Genesis, Sega Master System, NES (Famicom), PC Engine (Both HuCard and CD-ROM), GameBoy Advance, and even the PS2 version.  Click and read NOW!


Really nice reviews there. The NES version looks like a classic!
I always found Altered Beast really frustrating, not just on PCE but on SMS and Megadrive as well, even though the last two were moderate to dead easy to finish. I think I have a soft spot for the game for no apparent reason though, and would go to say the fondest memories I have are of the SMS version, I loved the music in it.
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sunteam_paul

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #101 on: October 08, 2006, 10:59:53 AM »
Quote from: "nodtveidt"
The way I see it...the PCE port of ALtered Beast is terrible. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the Genesis port buries the PCE port many times over. I've actually played through and beaten the Genesis port, yet I couldn't even get through the first level of the PCE port due to the terribly shitty controls and haphazard coldet that rivals Impossamole. However, it's almost a moot point as far as I'm concerned...a crap port of a rather lackluster and dull game isn't really going to scar my experience...but someone still has some serious explaining to do for the exceptionally shitty port of Golden Axe to the PCE.


Telenet has a LOT to answer for, and not just for Golden Axe.
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GUTS

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #102 on: October 08, 2006, 02:01:05 PM »
Now if they were going to use pre-rendered sprites in Silpheed for the player ship, enemies, and bosses, why wouldn't they make them more impressive looking?  They are obviously the same polygon ships that you see on the option screen, I doubt that somebody said "hey I know everything is pre-rendered, but lets code some polygons in here so people can rotate them for no reason!".  It's just common sense that they're polygons.

Keranu

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 08, 2006, 03:19:30 PM »
GUTS, it's possible they didn't make the ships more impressive looking just so they could fool the gamer into believing they are real polygons. I know that sounds silly, but hell I think that could be true. I also don't think the polygon test screen really proves anything either, just look at the "Polygon Test" in After Burner II for PCE. Not saying I don't think the hardware could handle real polygons for a game like that, but you could easily do the same with pre-rendered.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Jammaniaclord

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Ranger X: The Official Debate Thread
« Reply #104 on: October 08, 2006, 03:50:50 PM »
I think Chris Covell could torch the f*ck out of the CPU on the PCE, from his programming wizardry! :D


Then y'all's jaws would just hit the floor and we'd all hug each other, and sing in harmony holding hands al across the world, ala hands across the world. :D
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