RetroBlox : Another new Play-Everything "Retro" Console

[sirhcman]

Are real-hardware PCE owners now going to be expected to fight against RetroBlox owners for a dwindling supply of Arcade Card DUO & PRO cards???

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

[elmer]

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

Doesn't that rather depend upon who buys the RetroBlox, and why?

Isn't it tailor-made for folks that want to run *real* cartridges and *real* CDs on a piece of hardware.

Is that the same crowd that have a pre-loaded TurboEverdrive on hand?

For anyone that doesn't have a PCE already, are you saying that newcomers would expect to buy a RetroBlox (with SNES Module, probably), and then pay another $60 for the PCE Element Module, and then expect to have to go out an buy a $80 TurboEverdrive, too?

Even if they do ... what about the Sega CD and Playstation?

I'm ignorant here. I know that both of those have BIOSs on board. ...
... But are those BIOSs not needed during gameplay? It's a serious question, I just don't know.

[SamIAm]

I'm ignorant here. I know that both of those have BIOSs on board. ...
... But are those BIOSs not needed during gameplay? It's a serious question, I just don't know.

As someone who had no idea what is really going on under the hood, I think that the answer is "sometimes".

Magic Engine has its own substitute bios, although it doesn't work as well as a real one (which it gives you the option to set).

I know I've played a Saturn emulator that didn't need a bios, although again, many problems were solved by providing one.

The only way that this Retro-whatever could be legit, without obtaining permission to use the bioses anyway, would be for the developers to roll their own for each system. Even if they could manage it, this would seem to bring down the likelihood of accurate emulation significantly.

[elmer]

sam gets it

Poor answer ... you just sidestepped the question. 

As SamIAm pointed out, the "substitute" BIOSs provided with emulators are typically cr*p, with lots of problems.

How are folks supposed to get a real-and-working original BIOS into the RetroBlox console?

Or are you telling me that after every other emulator-author has come up with a lousy substitute-BIOS after years of work, that your guys have suddenly created 100% compatible ones, along with everything else that they've done, all in the last year-and-a-bit?

'cmon ... their posts today have been good news, and on the right track to shutting down the Hater Brigade.

I've got a good theory of what they've done technically, and I can see that it *could* be a real improvement over the existing emulators.

Don't mess up my semi-happy feelings with evasions. 

[Punch]

I overreacted but I'm still unconvinced by this whole thing. Guess it's a wait and see situation.

The BIOS question is a very good one but if I recall correctly the PSx emulator (which is an accurate one) doesn't need a BIOS dump file to work at all. There's probably a decent way to do it... and didn't most games patch the BIOS in RAM at runtime anyway?
I'm pretty sure that other consoles are going to need actual dumps to work though. The PCE side of things can get away with demanding an actual syscard in the console... which is kinda annoying for people who don't have one.

[Dicer]

This thing seems like an overly complicated hassle, blah blah blah protect copyright blah blah blah...I get that but in the end a person can go get a pi for the cheap and setup a competent emulation box for a fraction and with much less headache. I'm not seeing the benefit of this so far.

[Necromancer]

But ... it's going to be locked-down, with an encrypted SD-card that will only run stuff that you directly rip yourself on the console, and carts that include expansion-chips (StarFox, etc), will always need to be physically inserted in order to run.

No installing downloaded ROMs or ISO images.

That sucks.  I'd rather not waste days dumping and ripping hundreds of games.

The pricing bar has been set by their own comparision ...

We’re not confirming prices today, but we can tell you that RetroBlox, including 1 Element Module and controller, will be much less than a base Nintendo Switch, and additional Element Modules will vary in cost depending on complexity (both software and hardware), but won’t cost any more than a new video game. The final pricing will be announced before the launch of the Kickstarter Campaign in April.

So, I'm guessing that means $250-$299 for the base unit+1 module+controller, and $60 for each additional module.

They also dismissed the Retro Freak and its support of a dozen different systems as forcing you to pay for functionality that you don't need if you only want to play games on a couple different systems.  If your price estimates are accurate, they made a stupid comparison.

Are real-hardware PCE owners now going to be expected to fight against RetroBlox owners for a dwindling supply of Arcade Card DUO & PRO cards???

Haven't everdrives made this a non-issue?

How so?  The everdrive can emulate a Super System Card but it can't emulate an Arcade Card.

[Necromancer]

You could always just rip them as you play them. I don't really see any benefit (or fun) in pre-ripping all those games, especially since it probably won't take but a few seconds per cart.

If I bought one of these, it'd be hooked to the LCD in the living room (not in the game room) and taken to other people's homes, so the benefit would be in not having to move around my games.

(hey, if retro freak counts gb/gbc/gba, snes/sfc, gen/mega as separate consoles then why can't i? lol)

Because it's stupid?  There's no question that the Retro Freak supports more distinct platforms out of the box.

Also, there is no retro emubox thing out there today that has built in support for capturing screenshots/videos and streaming on twitch.  At least not that I'm aware of.  So comparing the base unit to Retro Freak or Retron isn't exactly apples to apples.

I agree.  Being honest that the Retro Freak supports more platforms for (maybe) similar cost but is missing wireless pad support, is limited to 720p instead of 1080p, lacks a disc drive, etc. would've been a far better answer from them.

You won't need to use any system cards of any kind with Retroblox, so isn't this moot?

They've not said explicitly that it supports Arcade Card games, so how would I know?  Similarly, there's no word on how or if it'll support Games Express games or the various games that have system card incompatibilities.

Maybe they've built a brand new system card bios that'll do all of the above with 100% compatibility, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[SignOfZeta]

Wait...you're saying it *won't* dump games from a flash card? How does it know and what kind of bullshit is that?

What's happened here you see is that all the conventional means of copy protections digital and analog have all been defeated so consoles that were designed to be "closed" are essentially now as open as any PC was in the 80s.

Well, this thing seems like it will fix THAT f*cking problem.

The more we talk about this the more I realize they've taken a very big bite. I hope they can chew it. The BIOS question seems insurmountable. With non-obey systems that don't have their disc OS on a cart especially. You can:

1) reverse engineer a good one

2) license the real one

Both seem unrealistic in the case of Sega CD. Bleam didn't use a real PS BIOS but it was also custom written on a game by game basis, IIRC. They were also sued out of business by Sony, who lost every judgement but killed them with legal costs.

[SignOfZeta]

Ah, yeah.

[GaijinD]

Bleam didn't use a real PS BIOS but it was also custom written on a game by game basis, IIRC.

No, it was general purpose, though I don't remember how good the compatibility was. I want to say I had problems with some games, but it's been a long time.

You were probably thinking of Bleemcast, the Dreamcast version that did have multiple releases, each customized to a particular game. I had an actual PlayStation by that point, so I never tried any of them.

[SignOfZeta]

Bleamcast is really impressive. The kind of thing we take for granted nowadays, emulation of polygonal stuff massively upgraded in resolution and overall smoothness thanks to newer hardware. I have the MGS one. The disc has some of the most insane custom etching and weird copyright protection I've ever even.

What I meant regarding Bleam was that their BIOS was legal but bad and needed to be constantly fixed one game at a time to increase compatibility. This is what I vaguely remember.

I remember Neo Geo emulation being like that at some point.

My point is that if you can't use a real one and they aren't going to license the real one then we can look forward to "game compatibility" being in increased incrementally over subsequent releases and frankly that kind of shit is why I play old games in the first place.

Bleam didn't use a real PS BIOS but it was also custom written on a game by game basis, IIRC.

No, it was general purpose, though I don't remember how good the compatibility was. I want to say I had problems with some games, but it's been a long time.

You were probably thinking of Bleemcast, the Dreamcast version that did have multiple releases, each customized to a particular game. I had an actual PlayStation by that point, so I never tried any of them.

[GaijinD]

What I meant regarding Bleam was that their BIOS was legal but bad and needed to be constantly fixed one game at a time to increase compatibility. This is what I vaguely remember.

I remember Neo Geo emulation being like that at some point.

Ah, okay. I can't say I remember, but it's a general pattern for emulators, so you're probably right. The deciding factor today is probably how well documented the BIOS features are. With enough reverse engineering already done, it may be relatively easy to put together a working replacement. I'm pretty sure Bleem! was starting from scratch.

Since you mentioned it, now I'm remembering NeoRage taking a half-hour to load KoF '97, before it even had sound. I actually thought it didn't work, since it'd go to a black screen with no indication that it was doing anything. It wasn't until one day where I had to walk away from my computer and came back later to find the game running that I realized it just took a long time to start up.

[sirhcman]

[KnightWarrior]

You know people going to fund this right?

I really hope this blows up in there faces