Author Topic: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)  (Read 2325 times)

ccovell

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 11:59:50 AM »
What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.

I'm not a sound or SNES HW expert, but one thing that can't carry over are the overtones/shaping that come from the SNES DSP.  If you copy the overtones as part of the PCE sample waveform, the overtones themselves scale with the note on the PCE, and that's something that doesn't happen on the SNES.

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 12:18:13 PM »
What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.

I'm not a sound or SNES HW expert, but one thing that can't carry over are the overtones/shaping that come from the SNES DSP.  If you copy the overtones as part of the PCE sample waveform, the overtones themselves scale with the note on the PCE, and that's something that doesn't happen on the SNES.

And I'm not a musician or a chiptuner, which I think may be a large part of the problem here, in the first place lol  ;)

Yea, a lot of the waveforms were clearly corrupted or overlaid with another waveform.  In those cases, I tried to track down the base waveforms by locating portions of the notes that were not corrupted (where possible).  Sometimes I had to just make do with whatever kind of pattern i could see or do a lot of trial and error with the preset waveforms in my collection.  The voice-like orchestral fade-in parts that span from about 0:04 - 0:08, I would love to know how to get that sound more hollow and voice like... and, i dunno, orchestral.

BTW, Michirin, thanks for the link to the waveforms!  I'm sure I will try them all out at some point.  I'm quickly becoming a waveform junkie.  haha

Michirin9801

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 01:42:11 PM »
And I'm not a musician or a chiptuner, which I think may be a large part of the problem here, in the first place lol  ;)
BTW, Michirin, thanks for the link to the waveforms!  I'm sure I will try them all out at some point.  I'm quickly becoming a waveform junkie.  haha
You know, I wasn't one either, I was strictly a spriter/2D artist, and I couldn't make music for s***, and I've only been using Deflemask for like, 2 years? It's gonna be 2 years this month, but I have MUCH less patience than you, I didn't read lots of info that would have helped me a whole lot, I took too long to join the Deflemask forum, I was just mashing my head against the keyboard until something nice came out, and I still have a hard time making anything even remotely original (my game project's soundtrack consists of loads of rip-offs of really obscure video game songs, some less unoriginal than others, it doesn't help that the YM2612 isn't nearly as much fun to use than the HuC6280 though...)

And you know, that's the thing, once you start fiddling around with the PCE soundchip you never want to stop because wavetables are SO much more fun to play around with than FM synth or even Samples! You can get something that sounds awesome really quickly, and you're always discovering new interesting sounds you can make, it's amazing!
So keep it up mate, and keep on taking criticism to heart like you're doing because that sure helps improving on the talent that you already have ^^

esteban

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2017, 02:28:06 AM »
:)

This track...it got me back here today sooner. I was planning on catching up on the forum tonight, but fragmare's (and P_D's) recent tunes convinced me otherwise.

So, whatever critiques folks may have...I'm glad I saw it in my streaming SoundCloud thingie :)
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spenoza

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2017, 03:35:06 AM »
That lower, bassier waveform has GOT to change. It's so rough it hurts. You gotta sacrifice some of the sameness for smoothness there. Everything else is teh awesomes.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2017, 11:08:29 PM »
That lower, bassier waveform has GOT to change. It's so rough it hurts. You gotta sacrifice some of the sameness for smoothness there. Everything else is teh awesomes.

Wish granted.  Also tweaked some waveforms, fixed a few more minor errors, and remixed the volumes a bit.  The bassline should sound a bit more mellow now.  Original post also updated with new tune.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 07:07:39 PM by fragmare »

Windcharger

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 03:33:16 AM »
The funny thing is, I actually had plans to cover this song in a few months as one of my next 4 or 5 projects (albeit in Squirrel), but I really *REALLY* like what you've done here.   :dance:

Great job frag!

Michirin9801

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 09:02:12 AM »
It's good, but I still wish it could be a little better... I don't think I'm in the position to nitpick it any further though, maybe it's just a matter of taste...
Either way, keep it up mate! I'm looking forward to what you have in stock for us ^^

esteban

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 09:12:08 AM »
I can dig it.

:)
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spenoza

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 12:23:13 PM »
That is the best, yet. Great work!
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 06:03:40 PM »
Glad you guys like it a bit better now.  Original post now updated with DMF and HES file.  DMF should now be "Huzak friendly".... Elmer.  :)

It's good, but I still wish it could be a little better... I don't think I'm in the position to nitpick it any further though, maybe it's just a matter of taste...
Either way, keep it up mate! I'm looking forward to what you have in stock for us ^^


Yea, I know what you mean.  This is one of those iconic and beloved tracks where if something sounds the LEAST bit off, I knew people who grew up hearing this tune throughout their childhood were going to point it out.  You're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.  It's a bit like playing whack-a-mole... if you change one thing, you have to change something else, or something, on some other channel, is going to get drowned out... some of the fades and notes are so subtle, in this.

I think, maybe, for my next tune i'm going to go in a COMPLETELY different direction and cover a tune few people probably even know and NOBODY will expect.   It's from one of the greatest arcade vertical shmups ever... and the music is SUPER funky.

I'm going to go straight up Louis Gorenfeld on this one.

People will either be like "I've never heard of that game" or "No... you can't be trying that on the PC-Engine"

Can't eat.  Can't sleep.  Cca.... can't... stop... this......... FEVER!  ;)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 07:47:07 PM by fragmare »

ccovell

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2017, 11:23:09 PM »
People will either be like "I've never heard of that game" or "No... you can't be trying that on the PC-Engine"

Can't eat.  Can't sleep.  Cca.... can't... stop... this......... FEVER!  ;)



Oh, great!  You're doing Atari's GOTCHA!

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2017, 12:13:54 AM »
YOU KNOW YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT!
 :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

elmer

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2017, 07:05:41 AM »
Glad you guys like it a bit better now.  Original post now updated with DMF and HES file.  DMF should now be "Huzak friendly".... Elmer.  :)


Thanks!  :D

Here you go ...

http://www.dropbox.com/s/y4fap3jhhdgqr43/Huzak3rdWIP3rdTry-SimonBelmontTheme.pce?dl=0

Please let me know what you think.


I had to remove a couple of stray effects that you'd left in there ...

Converting channel 1 matrix row 23 pattern 23.
Unknown deflemask effect code $21xx, aborting!
Failed to convert DMF pattern data, aborting!


But congratulations, you're the new winner at nearly 9900 bytes of data in the one track!!! :clap:

I suspect that's from putting all of those Volume Slides in as manual entries.

It's created a lot of extra Patterns in there.

Unfortunately, the overflow from one bank into the next showed up a bug in PCEAS's bank-overflow logic, so that's something else to find and fix.  ](*,)

I'll look more into space-optimization again when the whole thing works properly.

P.S. I absolutely love those drums!  :dance:

Michirin9801

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2017, 07:46:48 AM »
You're welcome to download the DMF and try fiddling with it, but I'm about burned out on this track, at this point.

I took a look at your current DMF file and well, let's just say that there's a lot of waste in the channels... If I were to 'tweak' it, I'd honestly want to remake it from scratch, but this does serve as a plenty good enough basis to help me with that...
That said though I'm not gonna remake it from scratch because I have like, a load of other covers on the back-burner that I haven't posted yet because I wanna post them all in a big bundle if you know what I mean >w>
(Also, if I make a new cover of this song based on yours I feel like I'm cheating >~<'; )

But if you don't mind, I have a few suggestions for your future covers:
- Pick a channel to put all of the least important stuff in it, preferably channels 5 or 6, and stick with it for all of your future songs! I like putting my percussion on channel 6 so I pick channel 5, now what do you do with this channel? You use it as little as possible! Avoid using that channel as much as possible so that it can be cut out to play sound effects with as little loss in the song as possible, while still taking somewhat full advantage of the soundchip! It's important that you pick channel 5 or 6 because those are the only two that play white noise, so they're the best channels for synthesising sound effects that use both waveforms and white noise, always keep that in mind when making songs for the PC engine!
In my case, I mostly use channel 5 for de-tuned delay/reverb effects, so whenever a sound effect needs to be played, the reverb is gone, but the song doesn't lose any detail, but you know, sometimes I'm not even using all of the other 5 channels on the song, in those cases I put the reverb in another channel, leaving channel 5 playing nothing, which leads me to my next suggestion:

- Use as few channels as possible! I've noticed that you often use 2 channels to play the same note without even de-tuning them (or at least not to a noticeable extent) you can easily replace that with just a single channel without any loss in quality or detail... Let me put it this way: Never use 2 channels to play the same note unless you're de-tuning them or doing delay-reverb (or both, btw, it's always a good idea to de-tune your reverb) Even if those channels are playing different instruments, avoid using 2 channels for the same note, you can play the same note of 2 different waveforms on the same channel by simply halving the wave resolution of both waveforms and adding them together, thus making a new waveform, kinda like this:

(In this example I'm taking a sawtooth, halving both its height and length, then repeating the length horizontally, then adding the heights of the two new waveforms together to make an octave saw)

It's always a good idea to free up channels in case you want to play chords or a complex harmonic support, one of the best ways I know to free up a channel is to put the delay/reverb on the same channel as the instrument that's using said delay/reverb, it works best when the instrument that's doing this effect plays a new different note very often, like, every 2 rows, so if you have an instrument playing like that you'll notice that every odd row is empty right? Well, why not fill them up? Here's what I do, I fill every odd row with whatever note played 3 rows before it, only at a lower volume and panned differently, so you'll be adjusting the volume and the pan on that channel constantly, it takes up a lot of memory, but well, memory isn't exactly a problem anymore... I've used this trick prominently on my Fighting Back cover as well as on my Battle Xtasy cover, check'em out:
http://sta.sh/01l3peenzmer
http://sta.sh/01w5meszyjir

Also, don't be afraid to shift an instrument from one channel to another mid-song in order to free up channels to play something else!

- Use the Note Cut (ECxx) effects on the basses, cutting off the bass one tick before the next note gives them a noticeable boost! I've noticed that you're just using Note OFF commands before every bass note, that works too, but you get more control over the Note OFF with the Note Cut effect, they're pretty much the same thing, but with the Note Cut you get to pick in which tick of the current row the Note OFF effect gets triggered...

- You can use NEZplug to rip waveforms from PC engine games! Just go download NEZplug, then go on Zophar domain and download .hes versions of whatever PC engine soundtrack you want (so long as it's not on CD, unfortunately they don't have any CD PSG soundtracks), then you just listen to the songs you want, click the CH button to turn on and off channels, and to rip the instruments you want click the DMP button, then select DEV_HuC6230 (I know it's HuC6280, but it's just numbered wrong in the software) and click on the channel you want to rip, you're gonna get a string of Hex numbers that represent the wavetable currently in-use in that particular channel in the song you're listening to, just convert them all to Decimal and you've got your wavetable! I know you like making your own waves based on the waves of the song you're listening to, but it's a wise idea to use the wavetables from PCE games you like as well!

That's about as much as I can think of right now... Mind you, I'm telling you these things from experience, you've got a lot of talent you know, more than me perhaps, but it just seems like you need a little bit of guidance before you can achieve great heights!
Either way, keep up your great work ^^