Author Topic: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)  (Read 2333 times)

fragmare

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Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« on: February 06, 2017, 06:11:53 PM »
Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon Belmont

6 channels.  All PSG.  NO samples.  NONE.


Super Castlevania IV - Theme of Simon Belmont (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Chiptune Cover) on SoundCloud

*drops the f*cking mouse and walks out...*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2017, 06:01:14 PM by fragmare »

Gredler

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2017, 07:00:57 PM »

ccovell

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2017, 07:59:40 PM »
The middle of the song is good to great, but the intro needs a fuller/noisier organ sound -- and in the bridge/"break", too.

Also, maybe you have the volume levels too low on instruments that fade in?  In the original, where there are some that fade in, I could hear them faintly, while in this cover, they're still silent & fade in like a second later than they should.

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2017, 08:13:53 PM »
The middle of the song is good to great, but the intro needs a fuller/noisier organ sound -- and in the bridge/"break", too.

Also, maybe you have the volume levels too low on instruments that fade in?  In the original, where there are some that fade in, I could hear them faintly, while in this cover, they're still silent & fade in like a second later than they should.

Yea, it's probably all just a volume/mixing issue.  This source track is HORRENDOUSLY intricate, which at first astounded me, as it's such an early title on the SNES.  But then it makes sense... it's Konami making a Castlevania game, you KNOW they're going to go in, dicks swinging

I checked all the volume levels against the source material, but like I said, it's horrendously intricate, so it's entirely possible I overlooked something.  I'll look again and see if I can find a discrepancy.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 08:17:54 PM by fragmare »

Lost Monkey

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 01:28:59 AM »
Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

Black Tiger

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 03:33:24 AM »
Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

No samples means no problem.
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fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 03:53:24 AM »
Nice!

Would this max out a PCE for sound output or would you be able to use this in a game?

I'd probably shuffle some stuff around in the track, so it only uses 5 channels (at least most of the time), but that's not an issue.  I just wanted to get the 6 channel version done before I go moving a bunch of stuff.  but, no,  there's nothing special about this tune that would disqualify it from being used in a game.

Somewhere, in an alternate universe, Konami still had a hard-on for the PC-Engine after the SNES came out and produced SCVIV on the PC-Engine.  And this is what the music sounded like.  At least, that's what I prefer to think.  :P

elmer

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 04:11:17 AM »
Nice!  :)

I wish that I could just drop a link to a working ROM here ... but I'm afraid that I can't.

I've looked at the .dmf that you posted, and you're making extensive use of the Tremolo and Volume Slide effects, and I haven't implemented those, yet.  #-o

But at least you've given me another test track for when I do!  :wink:

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 04:24:41 AM »
Nice!  :)

I wish that I could just drop a link to a working ROM here ... but I'm afraid that I can't.

I've looked at the .dmf that you posted, and you're making extensive use of the Tremolo and Volume Slide effects, and I haven't implemented those, yet.  #-o

But at least you've given me another test track for when I do!  :wink:


I'm honestly thinking about stripping those OUT and replacing it all with manual volume commands, to fix the things CCovell mentioned.  the Tremolo and Slide commands are nice and easy to throw in there, but they kind of lock up the other volume commands until they're done, and they don't really offer much control.... and i need MOAR CONTROL!

As for a working ROM, this should work for anybody with an emulator or TED:

Theme of Simon Belmont HES File Download

It might not be Huzak Optimized and Elmer Approved, but an optimized, in-game version isn't really going to sound much different anyway.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:36:09 AM by fragmare »

Michirin9801

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 05:12:01 AM »
This is certainly well-composed Fragmare, but the problem with this song is that the waveforms you've used are just too soft, that's why it doesn't have the same 'punch' that the Super Nintendo version has...  I've noticed you're using all 6 channels for the intro part, but I think you could achieve a much better effect with only 3 or 4 channels if only you were using a better waveform and took some liberties with the composition instead of sticking to the SNES version as closely as possible...

Here's an example of what you could have done to make it sound better in the intro: http://sta.sh/018ppi45vunl
Instead of playing the same note on every channel only slightly different, you could play the same note in different octaves and at different phases and use a 4th channel to do a delay/reverb effect, and it already sounds much stronger that way!
Of course the intro isn't the only part that's a little weak, but the other parts would sound quite a bit better if only you used better waveforms, some that aren't so soft you know?

http://www.deflemask.com/forum/show-off-your-work/official-wavetable-thread/msg3960/#msg3960
^Check out this thread on the Deflemask Forum, SpoonyBard posted some awesome wavetables in there! The Falcom waves and the Sakimoto Waves are must-haves, try experimenting with those and see what you can do ^^

spenoza

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 07:41:02 AM »
That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.
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fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 08:55:55 AM »
Minor update to the SoundCloud link.  Adjusted some instruments and whatnot

This is certainly well-composed Fragmare, but the problem with this song is that the waveforms you've used are just too soft, that's why it doesn't have the same 'punch' that the Super Nintendo version has...  I've noticed you're using all 6 channels for the intro part, but I think you could achieve a much better effect with only 3 or 4 channels if only you were using a better waveform and took some liberties with the composition instead of sticking to the SNES version as closely as possible...

Here's an example of what you could have done to make it sound better in the intro: http://sta.sh/018ppi45vunl
Instead of playing the same note on every channel only slightly different, you could play the same note in different octaves and at different phases and use a 4th channel to do a delay/reverb effect, and it already sounds much stronger that way!
Of course the intro isn't the only part that's a little weak, but the other parts would sound quite a bit better if only you used better waveforms, some that aren't so soft you know?

http://www.deflemask.com/forum/show-off-your-work/official-wavetable-thread/msg3960/#msg3960
^Check out this thread on the Deflemask Forum, SpoonyBard posted some awesome wavetables in there! The Falcom waves and the Sakimoto Waves are must-haves, try experimenting with those and see what you can do ^^


What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.

I like your technique with the [E5xx] command, though.  Gives quite a nice slightly "off-kilter" sound to it, that's quite appropriate.

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.


What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.

One thing I will mention is that within the source material there were what sounded like about 2 or 3 sour notes.  I actually left them in the mix here, for the purpose of getting something closer to 1:1, note for note to the SNES version.  I might remove them from a future revision.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:31:55 AM by fragmare »

Michirin9801

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 09:34:50 AM »
What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.
I believe the SNES has a low-pass filter, but I'm unsure, and I know from personal experience that copying waveforms from another system doesn't always yield the best results on the PC engine, it's often a wiser idea to go with different waveforms that sound better than to go with similar waveforms that sound weak...
And well, it's not exactly about sounding more noisy, it's about sounding more powerful, kinda like the SNES...

Also, even if you're not gonna use them on this song, you should definitely check out those wavetables from that thread, maybe use them as a basis for your own custom waves, who knows?

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.
It's at 1:26 on your soundcloud link, that part sounds a little off if you know what I mean...

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
What's funny is, I copied the waveforms straight from the SNES channel rips, but I didn't like how noisy and grindy they sounded coming out of the PC-Engine, so i softened them and mellowed them out a little bit.  This might be a difference in taste, because I actually had it sounding more noisy in an earlier WIP version, but decided I didn't like how that sounded... I dunno, when I listen to the SNES track, I don't get an noisy or grindy impresession from any of the instruments, maybe that's just me.  I wanted to make the PC-Engine version sound smooth, like butter, because when I listen to the SNES track, to my ears anyway, it has a very soft, mellow tone overlaid onto a very deep bass and strong, snarey drum track... that's what I was going for here.
I believe the SNES has a low-pass filter, but I'm unsure, and I know from personal experience that copying waveforms from another system doesn't always yield the best results on the PC engine, it's often a wiser idea to go with different waveforms that sound better than to go with similar waveforms that sound weak...
And well, it's not exactly about sounding more noisy, it's about sounding more powerful, kinda like the SNES...

Also, even if you're not gonna use them on this song, you should definitely check out those wavetables from that thread, maybe use them as a basis for your own custom waves, who knows?

That bassy note is so rough. Despite that, some of your other instruments are spot on. Very impressed. There are some tiny timing issues, however, with one particular note sequence.

What's the time mark?  You have no idea how OCD i am about getting the timing perfect.    Everything *should* be nailed, but give me the time mark of the suspected offending note(s) and i'll check again.
It's at 1:26 on your soundcloud link, that part sounds a little off if you know what I mean...

Got it, and good catch.  Thanks!  There was a funky game of catch up going on there with channel 5 and channel 1 and channel 5 was coming in a little too late.  Will update with a new link soon.  I'm loving the way the E5 is sounding on the organ, btw.  I'll try some more of the waveform packs, but the ones I've been trying out make it sound like an electric organ instead of that more mellow, organic pipe organ, though... i'll keep trying.  I honestly, though, think the E5 might be doing the trick all by itself... sort of gives it that off-tune sound you might expect in an old run down castle.  :)  Anyway, will update later tonight.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 10:10:22 AM by fragmare »

fragmare

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Re: Simon Belmont OBEYS! (Super Castlevania IV Chiptune Cover)
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 11:41:04 AM »
Okay, timing fixed at the ~1:26 mark.  Phew.  New track at same link.

See?  That's what I was talking about earlier... this track is nightmare-level intricate.  Far more so than Fighting In The Street or Lightning Strikes Again.

Also added the E5 effect on the organ intro and tweaked a couple other small things.  If anybody finds any other timing errors or anything, speak up.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 11:52:27 AM by fragmare »