PC Engine Creator Memories

[Black Tiger]

Very interesting read.
Considering the price, as cute as the original PC-Engine system is to me it has always felt little cheapish. You can feel the penny pinching. No AV-out, no power LED, No rubber feet, only one controller port, even the information on bottom is molded directly on. Since the actual hardware was pretty costly back then they propably tried to make the rest of the console as cheaply as possible. And recoup some of the losses by selling AV-Boosters and Multitaps.

That's the mentality they were afraid of when they decided to make the TG-16 and Turbo CD huge.

You know that you got your money's worth when the Turbo CD box is so big that you can't even fit it through your car door or in the trunk and have to walk it home.

[SignOfZeta]

Very interesting read.
Considering the price, as cute as the original PC-Engine system is to me it has always felt little cheapish. You can feel the penny pinching. No AV-out, no power LED, No rubber feet, only one controller port, even the information on bottom is molded directly on. Since the actual hardware was pretty costly back then they propably tried to make the rest of the console as cheaply as possible. And recoup some of the losses by selling AV-Boosters and Multitaps.

This is like when people complain about the PCE save system.

What DID have an AV out, even as an option (which, via Booster, it was) in 1987?

It doesn't have rubber feet because it's designed to dock in the IFU, which also provides the AV.

I have no clue what you mean by cheap feeling. The core systems are solid little bricks compared to the reletively creaky and squeaky cases on MD, FC, NeoGeo, etc.

[esteban]

Very interesting read.
Considering the price, as cute as the original PC-Engine system is to me it has always felt little cheapish. You can feel the penny pinching. No AV-out, no power LED, No rubber feet, only one controller port, even the information on bottom is molded directly on. Since the actual hardware was pretty costly back then they propably tried to make the rest of the console as cheaply as possible. And recoup some of the losses by selling AV-Boosters and Multitaps.

This is like when people complain about the PCE save system.

What DID have an AV out, even as an option (which, via Booster, it was) in 1987?

It doesn't have rubber feet because it's designed to dock in the IFU, which also provides the AV.

I have no clue what you mean by cheap feeling. The core systems are solid little bricks compared to the reletively creaky and squeaky cases on MD, FC, NeoGeo, etc.

Yeah, the FC/SMS/MD aren't "cheap" feeling, but they have always felt more *fragile* than the PCE hockey puck.

As for durability, the mini-DIN ports (controller, AV out on CoreGrafx) can't really take INSANE ABUSE...but we are talking about build-quality overall...and all the PCE designs have felt really solid to me.

I HATE GLOWING f*ckING LIGHTS when I am trying to watch movies/play games. Unless the console is tucked away, having a glowing light (power on) is an annoying distraction.

Now, a nice DISC ACCESS indicator (facing upwards, like the DUO) is usually not too annoying but it certainly is useful.

So, yes, I might be finicky (I put tape over bright lights that disturb the *experience* of movies/games), but I never thought the PCE power switch was "cheap" solution. It is simple, elegant.

/rant



The rubber feet? Yeah, I like rubber feet, too, but that is easily remedied.

[Black Tiger]

I had a TurboPad ruined bitd because someone walked through the cord while I was playing and the plug stayed in the TG-16 while the cord and plug casing ripped off.  A PCE pad would have just pulled out.

[Winniez]

I didn't mean to say that its not built well, will not last or it should have power LED (I don't even like those things). The hucard mechanic makes it propably more durable than most of the cartridge based systems.

I just pointed out that it feels like they were trying to save some money, sometimes pretty cleverly like with a lack of physical reset button instead opting for pressing select+run.
The omission of power LED seems to be pretty typical cost cutting measure, Nintendo did it with SNES/SFC jr, SEGA with SMS2 and I'm sure there are other examples aswell.

As for the AV-out I think PC-Engine was propably the last major console not to come with one. (not counting cheaper revisions like NES Toploader or SMS2). Master System had one in Japan and West (even RGB ready), western NES had one. And PC-Engine already had it but they chose not to include the socket so you had to either buy the AV-booster or make the cable yourself.

I have also noticed that the PC-Engine casing gets warmer than on other older systems. Propably due to the small size and relatively high CPU clock speed, and it doesn't have any heat shielding inside either. Not that it matters since these are known to be very reliable systems.

[esteban]

I didn't mean to say that its not built well, will not last or it should have power LED (I don't even like those things). The hucard mechanic makes it propably more durable than most of the cartridge based systems.

I just pointed out that it feels like they were trying to save some money, sometimes pretty cleverly like with a lack of physical reset button instead opting for pressing select+run.
The omission of power LED seems to be pretty typical cost cutting measure, Nintendo did it with SNES/SFC jr, SEGA with SMS2 and I'm sure there are other examples aswell.

As for the AV-out I think PC-Engine was propably the last major console not to come with one. (not counting cheaper revisions like NES Toploader or SMS2). Master System had one in Japan and West (even RGB ready), western NES had one. And PC-Engine already had it but they chose not to include the socket so you had to either buy the AV-booster or make the cable yourself.

I have also noticed that the PC-Engine casing gets warmer than on other older systems. Propably due to the small size and relatively high CPU clock speed, and it doesn't have any heat shielding inside either. Not that it matters since these are known to be very reliable systems.

Yes, I see what you mean: to save money.

No doubt the lack of LED power indicator was cost-saving...

As for the "warmth"... ha! I don't know...it would be interesting to compare things. I'm not sure, myself, about the heat generated at console vs. AC adapter (those old AC adapters get really warm, in my experience).

I'll tell you this: the turbotaps always seemed "hollow" to me.. but not particularly fragile or anything...but the stupid ports/mini-DIN connectors can easily be f*cked up by little kids (like my 5 year olds) jamming sh*t in with wanton abandon. 

That's what I see as the fragile Achilles Heal of the PCE hardware...the mini-DIN (or jumbo-DIN, for TG-16) need to be treated with some respect.



As for A/V out...I was happy with my NES and disappointed that TG-16 didn't offer composite + stereo RCA by default.

Pretty lame.

Even though a lot of TV's in use only had CATV/RF connectors, we simply used the VCR's inputs for video game consoles.

So.... no excuse, IMHO, for late-1989 TG-16 not shipping with A/V out (for 1987 PCE...I don't know enough about the state of Japanese home electronics...but I bet A/V out would have been fine).

[Black Tiger]

The most popular choice of video connection during the 32-bit generation in North America was RF.

[esteban]

The most popular choice of video connection during the 32-bit generation in North America was RF.

Why weren't folks using A/V in on VCR's?

Maybe folks on NJ were crazy, but if you had an RF/CATV TV, you used VCR as the conduit for everything (camcorders, video games, etc.)

[imparanoic]

The most popular choice of video connection during the 32-bit generation in North America was RF.

that's quite usual  considering 32 bit era, rgb scart became quite popular in europe and uk, even asia used mostly s video

[Black Tiger]

The most popular choice of video connection during the 32-bit generation in North America was RF.

that's quite usual  considering 32 bit era, rgb scart became quite popular in europe and uk, even asia used mostly s video

Not unusual at all when RGB/scart didn't really even happen here. I didn't finally get a TV capable of using s-video until late in the Dreamcast's lifespan and I had bought a new TV shortly after the Saturn's early launch.

[Winniez]

I remember using NES only with RF eventhough we had a TV with AV-in. I just didn't know any better. It was cool to discover that you could easily record game footage with a VCR.

[ParanoiaDragon]

I had a TurboPad ruined bitd because someone walked through the cord while I was playing and the plug stayed in the TG-16 while the cord and plug casing ripped off.  A PCE pad would have just pulled out.

Same here, though I don't recall the exact incident.  Might've even been me in frustration pulling on the cord, but I don't recall having a habit of doing that, so maybe one of my friends, the type that like to throw controllers when they're pissed off at losing in Bomberman!   I had a few of those.  One of whom, that didn't seem to understand that the point of Bomberman was to kill the other players!  He'd get pissed off at me for playing the game the way it was meant to be played!

[SamIAm]

This is like when people complain about the PCE save system.

What DID have an AV out, even as an option (which, via Booster, it was) in 1987?

Not allowing the user to move individual save files to and from the Tennokoe Bank is stupidity that transcends any time-period.

I mean, it's not the end of the world. If you need to backup a save, you can. Swapping entire memories back and forth is far from an insurmountable challenge. It's not a broken system. Then again, unlike the single controller port or whatever, there is no justification for the inconvenience. It's just bad design.

Also, that they didn't have the foresight to build support for save-memory expansions like the MB128 into at least the 3.0 bios is disappointing. PCE mag writers were worried about the size of the internal memory even in 1989. Sega knew to add bios support for expansion memory into the Mega CD in 1991, so what's NEC/Hudson's excuse? Maybe they didn't think controller-port expansions would be viable at the time, I don't know.

Anyway, if I were introducing the PCE hardware to someone, I'd generally describe it as pretty smartly put together: easy to program, easy to play, compact size, reliable, good capabilities for the time, and the CD expansion is undeniably cool...but the extra save-memory options are so dumb that it's usually better to play only a couple of CD games at a time, then delete your internal-memory saves to make room for the next ones.

If anyone ever makes a program for the Turbo Everdrive that lets you swap individual save files, nobody who has one will touch their Tennokoe Banks or MB128s again.

------------------------

Back on topic, I had once read on a Japanese forum or blog (don't remember which) that part of the reason why the Core II, Duo and PC-FX had relatively high price-tags is that Hudson got all of the software royalties and NEC had to profit on the hardware alone. Either the information was incorrect, the contract conditions changed at some point, or perhaps it's just that NEC's share of the royalties was very small. I'll see what I can find about this later.

EDIT: According to a book called "Game System Wars 1997: Sony, Sega, Bandai, Nintendo" (amazon link), the software royalties went to Hudson. It would be interesting if this were incorrect, because a lot of Japanese gamers on the internet seem to believe it. It's easy to find lots of posts saying so.

An interesting quote from Hudson executive Hiroshi Kudo upon being asked whether the PCE was a success or a failure, presumably later than 1995:
"Given the large quantity of units we sold, I'd say it's was a success. However, one might say it was a failure because it didn't survive until the end [of the generation]. For NEC, it might have been a failure."

Asked the same question, NEC engineer Tomio Goto, who seems to have been involved with 1979's PC-8001 and more, said only "We're proud that we brought CD-ROM technology to the market ahead of other companies."

[esteban]

It was cool to discover that you could easily record game footage with a VCR.

Yes, this was how my brothers and I recorded a lot of music, too (it was easy transfer to audio cassette later).

I don't know if it is still at my parents house, but we had a VHS tape where we recorded the endings of all the games we ever played (because usually there was a unique song that played).

These songs were the "least frequently heard songs" for me...but they weren't always amazing songs.



 I also recorded songs I just thought were kool...Iron Tank NES has some great tune I love and I can still picture the screen where you could safely record music without dying. Hilarious.   

[Black Tiger]

I wonder what Hiroshi Kudo considered the generation to be? The PC Engine launched 3 years before the Super Famicom and had strong software support until at least and year after the Saturn was released (8 years alone). He might just be remembering things wrong.

NEC also published a ton of PCE games, which would have earned them money.


Although it would have been nice to copy individual save files, it was still very cool to have internal saving at the time and so much more library support for saving that Genesis and SNES, which typically only had game saving in games which absolutely needed it.

You could also save files for as many as 50 games or more. I wasn't trying to get as many as I could when I wound up with 3 pages of saves on my Turbo CD or TurboDuo bitd. But I got to that point before discovering a method to measure their sizes.