Author Topic: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)  (Read 3856 times)

Michirin9801

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2017, 05:36:52 AM »
The PC-Engine *does* require a good beat-em-up, at some point, though... and a hucard/rom would probably be the best way to go with it too.
It really does, but you know what? If it depends on me it will have one!
... Eventually...


Lets do it just port over a version of SOR for the music alone!
I'd rather see something all new or at least a port of a less well known arcade game.  Either way it'd be a ton of work, and it seems a shame to exert such effort just to end up with a slightly different game than what most everyone's played repeatedly.
I agree with Necromancer, you see, I don't want to announce anything right now, but I do want to make my own original beat 'em up someday... It will probably take a really long time considering I have another project that's currently in development hell, and after I finish said project I want to make a horizontal scrolling shmup, but after said shmup is completed is when I'll start working on a beat'em up...
It will be primarily a PC game, but if someone is willing to help me port it over to the PC engine I'll gladly make new assets and music for said version! But that's as much as I'm gonna say right now... Heck, I don't doubt someone else could actually port SoR over to the PCE before I could even finish my current project, I mean seriously, it's gonna take a while...

Gredler

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2017, 06:15:36 AM »
Sounded fan-fricken-tastic!

Like others had said, your skills have proven to be epic but I would love to hear some original work!

What are your goals for your pixel art? Do you have a project going, jumping on one, or just doing some stuff for the funsies of it? I would love to see what you're working on, and hear what theme and use the pixel work is intended to be!

Glad to see such a talented and productive contribution, thanks!

fragmare

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2017, 07:53:36 AM »
The PC-Engine *does* require a good beat-em-up, at some point, though... and a hucard/rom would probably be the best way to go with it too.
It really does, but you know what? If it depends on me it will have one!
... Eventually...

I'd rather see something all new or at least a port of a less well known arcade game.  Either way it'd be a ton of work, and it seems a shame to exert such effort just to end up with a slightly different game than what most everyone's played repeatedly.

I'd rather see something new too.  I don't think people are REALLY going to be happy, though, unless it's a traditional "small group of vigilantes vs. city wide crime syndicate" type of beat-em-up.  That being said, there a number of arcade beat-em-ups that would have been PERFECT on the PC-Engine, that the SNES and Genesis never got.  TMNT1 (could probably be nearly 1:1), Battletoads Arcade (uses 512x224 mode, PCE has 512x224 mode, umm?), The Simpsons Arcade (idgaf what anybody says, this game was awesome), plus so many more.  We got... Riot Zone.  Woo!

I'm not necessarily against a port of some great already-existing beat-em-up to the PC-Engine.  In fact, I'd say given the current great beat-em-up count on the PC-Engine (which is exactly 0), a port would be welcomed by anyone. 

Really, I think the best way for something like porting a game to the PC-Engine, though, would be some kind of open, COMMUNITY source project that people could contribute to, piecemeal, over the course of months or even years.  Kind of like Github, except for a PCE project.  I think that's really the ONLY way something like that would (and should) get done... The IP doesn't belong to anyone in the community anyway, and it's not for profit, so why not open source it?


Sounded fan-fricken-tastic!

Like others had said, your skills have proven to be epic but I would love to hear some original work!

What are your goals for your pixel art? Do you have a project going, jumping on one, or just doing some stuff for the funsies of it? I would love to see what you're working on, and hear what theme and use the pixel work is intended to be!

Glad to see such a talented and productive contribution, thanks!

Thanks!  Uhh, original work is going to be a problem lol... I'm not any kind of actual musician.  I can just give you a mean PCE cover of something someone else has already composed.  ;)

For the pixel art, I'm probably honestly going to screw around with Xymati and/or PC-Gunjin a little more, and see what the Desire guys need for the upcoming demo too.   Like I said, I'm still going to be chiptuning, I'm just taking a break for a couple weeks instead of just starting one song up as soon as i finish another.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 08:15:18 AM by fragmare »

Gredler

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2017, 08:13:34 AM »
...and it's not for profit, so why not open source it?




I'd work on something like that a lot if it had a programmer

elmer

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 04:53:41 AM »
Really, I think the best way for something like porting a game to the PC-Engine, though, would be some kind of open, COMMUNITY source project that people could contribute to, piecemeal, over the course of months or even years.  Kind of like Github, except for a PCE project.  I think that's really the ONLY way something like that would (and should) get done... The IP doesn't belong to anyone in the community anyway, and it's not for profit, so why not open source it?

Ahhhh ... but when it comes to a Port, the IP, and graphics and game-design do actually belong to someone, so you'd immediately risk running foul of them.

I can forsee problems there, even if you chose to copy a game from a small-and-mostly-extinct company like my dream-project-that-doesn't-make-sense ...






Punch

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 11:05:21 AM »
You cannot destroy 
the loss of interest truck.

So many projects fail because people were not passionate enough to make a project happen. This easily claims 99% of indie projects on the internet, a team assembled from people working for free in their spare time almost always disbands in open source projects. We don't have nearly enough PCE devs to make this work, I mean, it has to be a project that every single one wants to do BADLY else it has no chance of happening. Everyone has to be seriously invested in it...

I think that an interesting project to tackle with that mindset is the Golden Axe Arcade Card port. Who doesn't love what was already achieved with it? It doesn't feel like it's going anywhere right now, and if the author(s) feel like it's worth a shot we could have an outstanding piece to experiment with a decentralized OSS project.

tangent: I wanted to do OSMAN for a long, long time now but there are two major problems with tackling that game: I don't feel like I have sufficient experience to do a solid conversion, and I also think that there's no way parallax can be implemented without butchering the bg layer or making it static, and that's one of the big draws of this game, the gorgeous pixel art. I think some of the big bosses of the PCE scene could do magic with it but it would still lose some of the flavor that the original version has.

fragmare

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2017, 11:57:44 AM »
Really, I think the best way for something like porting a game to the PC-Engine, though, would be some kind of open, COMMUNITY source project that people could contribute to, piecemeal, over the course of months or even years.  Kind of like Github, except for a PCE project.  I think that's really the ONLY way something like that would (and should) get done... The IP doesn't belong to anyone in the community anyway, and it's not for profit, so why not open source it?

Ahhhh ... but when it comes to a Port, the IP, and graphics and game-design do actually belong to someone, so you'd immediately risk running foul of them.

I can forsee problems there, even if you chose to copy a game from a small-and-mostly-extinct company like my dream-project-that-doesn't-make-sense ...








I didn't say the IP didn't belong to anyone.  I just said it didn't belong to anyone in the community... i.e., anyone working on said port project.  and since the IP doesn't belong to anyone working on said project, there should be no problems freely and openly sharing code/assets with other people in the community also working on said project.  It's really the best way...

I don't think anybody in the PC-Engine community is going to receive any cease and desist letters because they all decided to team up and port a game to their system.  Osman or not.  You might foresee problems there, but I decidedly do not.  That might just be programmer paranoia.  ;)

I think the main problem with the PC-Engine community is there is little to no cohesion or teamwork, for the most part.  Everybody has their own little projects going on, and rather than come together and work on something epic that would put the PC-Engine community on the map, everybody wants to continue making Princess PeePee's Magical Adventure Story or whatever...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 12:12:39 PM by fragmare »

elmer

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2017, 02:56:09 PM »
I don't think anybody in the PC-Engine community is going to receive any cease and desist letters because they all decided to team up and port a game to their system.  Osman or not.  You might foresee problems there, but I decidedly do not.  That might just be programmer paranoia.  ;)

Sure, I know that you didn't say that.  :)

I could easily just be being totally paranoid ... but in a world where Nintendo takes down people's YouTube channels for posting the "wrong" video of their copyrighted materials, then you never know.

OTOH, there's the argument that if nobody has stopped Tobias and PCEWorks, then anything-goes.

The truth is probably somewhere in between, where it would depend upon which arcade game you chose to port, and how much attention you drew to it (more attention -> more chance for trouble).


Quote
I think the main problem with the PC-Engine community is there is little to no cohesion or teamwork, for the most part.

Yep, it's been a little surprising to me just how little there is in the way of "community" resources, but when it comes to folks actually collaborating on a single project, then I'm a lot less surprised.

Most 4th-gen games that I know of BITD were mostly one programmer, and one artist, for 80% of the work, with maybe another artist if you had enough work to split backgrounds and sprites between 2 different people.

You might have had another pair added part-way-through, to do things like the menus, cinematics, or stuff like that.

Smaller teams just worked better than throwing lots of semi-interested folks at the same project together and then trying to figure out who-does-what-sprite-but-let's-make-them-all-look-consistent.

Collaborative code-development is difficult-enough in the professional world ... I can only see it being an absolute nightmare in a part-time hobby project.


From my POV, the problem isn't one of getting a lot of people to collaborate together on one project, it's more one of needing to have more people doing more projects.

Peer-pressure has always been a wonderful motivator for developers.

Even if folks aren't on the same project ... just having the "community" vibe being that stuff-is-getting-done, and constantly posting updates, helps give everyone else the motivation to not appear to fall behind and just spend the evening on the couch instead.

I've tried to make Uli's HuC easily accessible for folks ... and have received mostly apathy except for DK & Gredler, and even they probably wouldn't have used it if the old HuC hadn't broken on them.

It's only because of their willingness to actually use it that bugs have been found and fixed.

It's the same with Huzak.

If it wasn't for Michirin9801's large portfolio of tracks to test it with, and her willingness to be a part of the process and to listen to the results and point out problems, then it wouldn't be anywhere near as far-along as it is.

But, the reality here in the PCE community is that there just aren't a lot of active developers/teams, and I don't really have any clue of how or even if, that's going to change.

Although, I do have to say that the work that Sarumaru and the Henshin Engine team are putting into their project is really inspiring; and their ability to actually get a spotlight on it, and get some public buzz, has probably done more to raise the PCE's development profile than anything else that I've seen in the last xxx years.

Black Tiger

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2017, 02:56:59 PM »
You cannot destroy 
the loss of interest truck.

So many projects fail because people were not passionate enough to make a project happen. This easily claims 99% of indie projects on the internet, a team assembled from people working for free in their spare time almost always disbands in open source projects. We don't have nearly enough PCE devs to make this work, I mean, it has to be a project that every single one wants to do BADLY else it has no chance of happening. Everyone has to be seriously invested in it...

I think that an interesting project to tackle with that mindset is the Golden Axe Arcade Card port. Who doesn't love what was already achieved with it? It doesn't feel like it's going anywhere right now, and if the author(s) feel like it's worth a shot we could have an outstanding piece to experiment with a decentralized OSS project.

tangent: I wanted to do OSMAN for a long, long time now but there are two major problems with tackling that game: I don't feel like I have sufficient experience to do a solid conversion, and I also think that there's no way parallax can be implemented without butchering the bg layer or making it static, and that's one of the big draws of this game, the gorgeous pixel art. I think some of the big bosses of the PCE scene could do magic with it but it would still lose some of the flavor that the original version has.

Osman is perfect for parallax using spaced out sprites against a solid color, as they scroll behind the main layer, peeking through color 0 (or whatever). You could also add more horizontal and vertical scrolling to the background layer. Since nobody complains about Genesis games like Daimakairmura and Forgotten Worlds losing 90% of the parallax artwork and detail from the arcade versions, a PCE port of Osman with what looks like full detail on the main layer and simplified artwork in the background layer would only seem more impressive.
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elmer

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2017, 03:16:05 PM »
tangent: I wanted to do OSMAN for a long, long time now but there are two major problems with tackling that game: I don't feel like I have sufficient experience to do a solid conversion, and I also think that there's no way parallax can be implemented without butchering the bg layer or making it static, and that's one of the big draws of this game, the gorgeous pixel art. I think some of the big bosses of the PCE scene could do magic with it but it would still lose some of the flavor that the original version has.

Simple solution ... SuperGrafx. Create the true sequel to the promised-but-cancelled SuperGrafx Strider.

Even though it came out in 1996, the Data East DECO 156 board that it's using is 320x240 resolution, with two layers of 16-colors-per-tile backgrounds and sprites, i.e. perfect for the SuperGrafx.

The graphics could be dumped using MAME.

The main thing would be re-mapping the palettes to PCE colors, and then doing a fixup pass on the results.

Dicer

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2017, 03:28:56 PM »
I've watched a playthrough of OSMAN, most of that scrolling seems to be one layer...I don't see anything outside of some sprite f*ckery that the stock PCE couldn't do on a SuperCD

As much as it would be cool to see more SGX stuff it really limits the amount of people that will be able to properly play it.

Strider SGX did exist at least in proto form once upon a time, maybe some magical day it'll come to the surface.


fragmare

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2017, 11:42:44 PM »
I've watched a playthrough of OSMAN, most of that scrolling seems to be one layer...I don't see anything outside of some sprite f*ckery that the stock PCE couldn't do on a SuperCD

As much as it would be cool to see more SGX stuff it really limits the amount of people that will be able to properly play it.

Strider SGX did exist at least in proto form once upon a time, maybe some magical day it'll come to the surface.



There are too many sprite animations to really fit into 2Mbit of SuperCD RAM, I think.  Same went for Strider.  That's why they stuck it on Arcade Card.  I can only imagine Osman is even worse on the frame abuse.  Your best bet is gonna be Arcade Card or a big ass 16Mbit+ HuCard ROM image with those sweet sweet HuC6280a PSG sounds...  ;)

Maybe i'll cover a Strider tune one day, so we can all finally hear what SuperGrafx Strider might have sounded like...

Michirin9801

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2017, 03:54:36 AM »
I just watched some gameplay, and wow, for an arcade game, Osman sure does flicker quite a bit >w>
A pretty arcade-close port could totally be done on the SuperGrafx, but then again that does limit who can really play it, but on the PCE the backgrounds would have to pick between having detail but no parallax, or parallax but no detail... Personally I'd pick the latter, but I have a bit of a hard time imagining what the new BG made of sprites would look like... Maybe just have a couple of building and cloud sprites here and there behind the BG in tandem with some line-interruption to do an Amiga-style gradient, but I don't know, there are a lot of ways it could be done, all of which would require some artist interpretation...

elmer

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2017, 04:09:13 AM »
I just watched some gameplay, and wow, for an arcade game, Osman sure does flicker quite a bit >w>

You probably ended up at the same crappy YouTube longplay video that I did.

Try this one instead ...


No noticeable flicker.

Or just fire it up in Mame!  :wink:

EvilEvoIX

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Re: Streets of Rage 2 - Go Straight Beatmix (TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine Cover)
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2017, 05:10:03 AM »
Why not port over TMNT from the NES?  Upgrade the colors?


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