Author Topic: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...  (Read 829 times)

SignOfZeta

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2017, 03:47:22 PM »
I think we may have just witenessed a pivotal ideological moment here.

Since the PCE doesn't have a massive list of hardware accelerated functions like the Neo and SFC yet still produces at least as many great games, obviously one can argue that such features aren't as important as OEMs have made us think. But to claim that hardware acceleration DOES NOT EXIST is a seriously...I kinda hate to say this, but Trumpian leap of logic.

Duh lol. Stuff like mode 7 on SFC isn't really anything great. I don't have my PCE yet, but I doubt the games will suffer from not having multiple background layers. Even the "fake" parallax it uses looks as good as the big 2.

I think this guy might be an idiot.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 03:48:54 PM by SignOfZeta »

Artabasdos

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2017, 03:55:42 PM »
I think we may have just witenessed a pivotal ideological moment here.

Since the PCE doesn't have a massive list of hardware accelerated functions like the Neo and SFC yet still produces at least as many great games, obviously one can argue that such features aren't as important as OEMs have made us think. But to claim that hardware acceleration DOES NOT EXIST is a seriously...I kinda hate to say this, but Trumpian leap of logic.

Duh lol. Stuff like mode 7 on SFC isn't really anything great. I don't have my PCE yet, but I doubt the games will suffer from not having multiple background layers. Even the "fake" parallax it uses looks as good as the big 2.

I think this guy might be an idiot.

For what reason?

fragmare

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2017, 08:57:42 PM »
Does this make even parallax-free scenes of Neo Geo games "all fake"?

Yup.  Every last bit of the parallax on the Neo Geo is faked.  It's all sprites.  All of it.  So... yea actually, I'd say the NeoGeo uses fake parallax.  In fact, ALL of the background scrolling on the Neo Geo is faked, parallax or not.  And the reason I'd say it's faked is because it's not natively supported by the hardware.  For the exact same reason I'd say all the parallax on the PC-Engine is "faked" or "software based". 



« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 08:59:14 PM by fragmare »

Artabasdos

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2017, 09:11:10 PM »
Does this make even parallax-free scenes of Neo Geo games "all fake"?

Yup.  Every last bit of the parallax on the Neo Geo is faked.  It's all sprites.  All of it.  So... yea actually, I'd say the NeoGeo uses fake parallax.  In fact, ALL of the background scrolling on the Neo Geo is faked, parallax or not.  And the reason I'd say it's faked is because it's not natively supported by the hardware.  For the exact same reason I'd say all the parallax on the PC-Engine is "faked" or "software based".

Did not know that.

fragmare

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2017, 10:22:14 PM »
Does this make even parallax-free scenes of Neo Geo games "all fake"?

Yup.  Every last bit of the parallax on the Neo Geo is faked.  It's all sprites.  All of it.  So... yea actually, I'd say the NeoGeo uses fake parallax.  In fact, ALL of the background scrolling on the Neo Geo is faked, parallax or not.  And the reason I'd say it's faked is because it's not natively supported by the hardware.  For the exact same reason I'd say all the parallax on the PC-Engine is "faked" or "software based".

Did not know that.

Yep, the NeoGeo supports exactly ZERO scrolling background layers.  I mean, I think you can probably put a flat color back there (like blue or black for sky or space or something like that) but you can't do an actual bg layer on the NeoGeo.  If you want scrolling backgrounds of any kind, you literally have to construct it all out of sprites

Pokun

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Re: PC Engine & parallax scrolling...
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2017, 11:51:53 PM »
I guess the big 16x16 sprites of the PC Engine and Neo Geo makes it easier to make parallax scrolling or other split-screen effects. I read somewhere that Hudson planned for two background layers first, but I guess it was already expensive as it was so they had to scrap it.

Dual tile layers are used in many ways, intended for many different things and are not simply a "hardware parallax" feature. What they are often used for is faking large sprites for things like bosses, when the PC Engine usually uses real actual sprites. Are those fake sprites? Is that hardware support for sprites? Can tiles be sprites, even though it's being insisted that the opposite doesn't count?
In colloquial terms it would probably be considered a sprite, but for "sprite" as a hardware term it's obviously not a sprite, so yeah call it "fake" or whatever.

Using multiple hardware tile layers for parallax is no different than using multiple hardware sprites for parallax or a single hardware tile layer for parallax or a combination of hardware tiles and sprites for parallax. In all cases, parallax is not the dedicated function of the hardware features used and all features used are hardware supported.
I see your point, parallax scrolling (unlike sprites and background layers) isn't a hardware feature in its own in any of these systems, and it was a thing long before multiple background layers became common and made it easy to do.
"Hardware parallax" may be a clumsy expression, although in the context I thought it was clear what Artabasdos meant.