Author Topic: CD-R media & burners  (Read 1875 times)

Punch

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CD-R media & burners
« on: July 11, 2017, 10:14:55 AM »
What kind of burning hardware and discs do you use for burning backups and/or PCE development?

I was wondering about decent CD backups lately, and one question came to mind: can burned CDs have the same (or close) quality to pressed discs? I'm pretty much speculating here but wasn't the CDR made to be fully compatible with existing CD technology?

Anyway... I was thinking about buying some Taiyo Yudens and japanese Verbatim/Mitsubishi Phono-Rs to see if I can get most of the games I don't want to pay a fortune for running OK, but based on my experience with silver MAM-As I think I'll need a decent burner, too. At least something capable of writing slower than 10x.

Gypsy

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 10:22:11 AM »
I think if you want something that slow you'll have to get an old drive. Plextor stuff is pretty good, but it can be a pain to find a drive that hasn't been ran into the ground.

Also fwiw I've been using crapto Memorex cdrs for everything lately PCE, Saturn, Feka CD. Only issue I had with anything was audio dropping during the end credits of English patched Ys IV.

Arkhan

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 10:29:14 AM »
Just get highly reflective bottomed silverdoodle discs.

Taiyo Yuden or Diamond Silverbacks were pretty legit.

Don't use poverty CDRs
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Necromancer

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 10:45:14 AM »
What kind of burning hardware and discs do you use for burning backups and/or PCE development?

I burn Taiyo Yuden silvers with Clone CD and on whatever cheap DVD-R drive came in my Dell shitbox.  I think it burns as slow as 8x, but I can't say for sure if that's the limit of the discs or the drive or both.  It's not gonna be easy to find discs (other than old stock) that're designed to be burnt at anything close to 1x, so I wouldn't worry about it that much.

I was wondering about decent CD backups lately, and one question came to mind: can burned CDs have the same (or close) quality to pressed discs?

They'll work, but I wouldn't say they're nearly as good as a properly made pressed disc in good condition (all bets are off if it's poorly mastered, from a shit chinese pressing house, scratched, rotting, etc.).  A burned disc is less reflective, more susceptible to uv/heat/humidity/etc., and more easily damaged (there's nothing but a thin layer of lacquer covering the top side).

I'm pretty much speculating here but wasn't the CDR made to be fully compatible with existing CD technology?

Yes and no.  The shorter discs (650mb or less) are compliant with red book specs, but nobody makes 'em any more and longer discs (700mb+) are non-compliant, requiring the laser to move where it was never intended to go.  And in any case, CD-Rs are less reflective than a pressed disc.
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Johnpv

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 02:28:34 PM »
Anyone ever use those MDiscs (which supposedly have you burning the data into a super thin slice of stone).  I know they make them in DVD and Bluray wonder if they make CDRs of them.

IvanBeavkov

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 03:34:06 AM »
Anyone ever use those MDiscs (which supposedly have you burning the data into a super thin slice of stone).  I know they make them in DVD and Bluray wonder if they make CDRs of them.


Unfortunately it looks like they will not be making M-Disc CDs. Which is unfortunate.

From their FAQ:

Are you working on a CD version of M-Disc?
No, we don’t plan a CD version of the M-Disc. We recognize there are some customers who would like to have an M-Disc that they can play in their CD players, but this market is very small. Also, the cost of making an M-Disc CD would be essentially the same as making an M-Disc DVD, so there would be no cost advantage to an M-Disc CD. In fact, there would be a disadvantage in terms of cost per gigabyte of storage. For these reasons, we’ve concluded that the return on investment for an M-Disc CD doesn’t make sense.

http://www.mdisc.com/faq-1/

crazydean

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 03:37:04 AM »
Anyone ever use those MDiscs (which supposedly have you burning the data into a super thin slice of stone).  I know they make them in DVD and Bluray wonder if they make CDRs of them.

According to Wikipedia, the M-Disc isn't any more reliable than standard DVD-Rs. Also, they're $30 for a pack of 10.
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xelement5x

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 05:41:42 AM »
CDRWIN is what I use to burn.  I've got old Sony and Pioneer drives in my desktop, plus an old SCSI Teac that still works fine.  I mainly use Verbatims, but I am rarely making CDRs for PCE stuff, and Verbatims seem to work fine with most other consoles. 
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spenoza

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 05:45:39 AM »
A burned disc is less reflective, more susceptible to uv/heat/humidity/etc., and more easily damaged (there's nothing but a thin layer of lacquer covering the top side).
Quite a lot of pressed discs are like this, too. The paint on top of the disc is the only top-layer protection, in many cases.

I'm pretty much speculating here but wasn't the CDR made to be fully compatible with existing CD technology?

Yes and no.  The shorter discs (650mb or less) are compliant with red book specs, but nobody makes 'em any more and longer discs (700mb+) are non-compliant, requiring the laser to move where it was never intended to go.  And in any case, CD-Rs are less reflective than a pressed disc.
But if you're burning a <= 650 MB image the burner should conform it to the proper readable area. Just make sure to set your compatibility settings correctly and this shouldn't be an issue.
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Necromancer

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 06:17:04 AM »
Quite a lot of pressed discs are like this, too. The paint on top of the disc is the only top-layer protection, in many cases.

Maybe so, but I'd say they're still more durable than a CDR.  I've never had a pressed disc peel up around the edge or get a scratch through the top side from normal (non-abusive) use, and I can't say that about CDRs, even good quality brands.

But if you're burning a <= 650 MB image the burner should conform it to the proper readable area. Just make sure to set your compatibility settings correctly and this shouldn't be an issue.

Unless the laser gets lost, at which point it'll read all the way out to the end of the disc before returning to center.
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elmer

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2017, 05:27:07 AM »
Yes and no.  The shorter discs (650mb or less) are compliant with red book specs, but nobody makes 'em any more and longer discs (700mb+) are non-compliant, requiring the laser to move where it was never intended to go.  And in any case, CD-Rs are less reflective than a pressed disc.

Absolutely!

IMHO, people should use 650MB CD-Rs on the PCE/TG-16, especially on briefcases with the old 1st-generation CD-ROM drive.

All PCE CD drives are early CD-ROM technology, they just don't have the drive-manufacturer's experience with handling out-of-original-spec discs like the 700MB-sized discs that pack tracks so closely together.

For those that didn't stock up on the last of the Taiyo Yuden 650MB CD-Rs, this place still sells 650MB discs ...

http://www.mam-a-store.com/silver-cd-r.html
http://www.mam-a-store.com/goldcdr.html

Gypsy

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2017, 07:20:13 AM »
Just a heads up, shipping is Fedex only so it's pretty pricey and they do charge actual shipping. I went ahead and got some dvd-rs from them as well to feel better about shipping.

xelement5x

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 05:17:02 AM »
Just a heads up, shipping is Fedex only so it's pretty pricey and they do charge actual shipping. I went ahead and got some dvd-rs from them as well to feel better about shipping.

Well, a spindle of discs isn't going to be that light if you think about it, FedEx might be the cheapest route.
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Gypsy

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 05:27:18 AM »
USPS flat rate probably, but then again businesses get discounts if they ship enough with Fedex. Shipping was around $20 for 200 discs.

xelement5x

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Re: CD-R media & burners
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2017, 08:32:16 AM »
USPS flat rate probably, but then again businesses get discounts if they ship enough with Fedex. Shipping was around $20 for 200 discs.

Dang, that is a lot!
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