Author Topic: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison  (Read 2743 times)

Johnpv

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2017, 11:22:39 AM »
I'll second the I don't care what people play on as long as they're actually playing their games.  My setup right now involves a 50 inch lcd, I still have my 27 inch Sony Wega though, with component input, and one day when we live in a place with more rooms I'll get it set up in a proper game room. 

Keeping the fiance happy definitely plays into things.  As a big vertical shmup fan I do have to say I love the convenience of my current setup.   Any time I want to play a vertical shmup, the wall mount for my TV lets me rotate in about 20 seconds and I'm ready to go.   Way back in the day I kept a 19 inch on its side all the time along side that 27 inch Sony, just for vertical shmups.

Black Tiger

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 11:31:49 AM »
I have a 32" or 36" Wega that I play all <32-bit console and arcade games on. I got it free off craigslist, on the condition that I also take the stabd. It looks much better than my RGB monitor, which I keep on its side for playing tate games.

Composite looks great on all crts, when the signal is good. I wish that RGB to s-video mods were more common.

I only use a framemeister for capturing HD video. I have no problem playing emulation on hdtvs/monitors for short sessions or capturing screenshots, but will always play 240p games on real hardware using a crt if I can.

After not playing Henshin Engine on real hardware since an early build, I was shocked by how good the pixelart of the later stages looks on my TV. There is more than scanlines with crts that compliments 240p pixelart. No emulator filters I've seen come close to the overall effect.

If anyone prefers hdtvs or even emulation over real hardware, that's their business. As long as it's not stretched to 16:9. There are just too many threads in misc forums of people complaining about problems that could easily be avoided through much cheaper and more practical solutions.

Like people using real carts on fake hardware, yet insisting that flashcarts on real hardware is a "fake" experience.
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Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 12:50:58 PM »
lol I just found a like 27" toshiba theater vision TV on a lawn.

I broke the bottom tried to load that f*cker in the car, but it might work.

I have to like, get help to get it in my house because it's yuuuuuge.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Gypsy

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 02:05:31 PM »
If anyone prefers hdtvs or even emulation over real hardware, that's their business. As long as it's not stretched to 16:9. There are just too many threads in misc forums of people complaining about problems that could easily be avoided through much cheaper and more practical solutions.

Yeah, that's the actual worst. Who thinks that looks good??!

Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 03:08:11 PM »
I had many FB battles with gimps that thought stretchytime was fine, lol.

Dudes losing their shit over being made fun of for playing PCE stretched out.

There were some funny memes I made. I should dig them out.

One of them was like, a 3 pixel tall stripe and a caption like LORDS OF THUNDER IS AWSEOMEEE or something
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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SamIAm

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2017, 03:23:50 PM »
Put me in a situation where all I have is a 14" BVM and offer to trade me one of the better consumer SDTVs over 25" for it, and I'll accept. If all I have is a 9" BVM, I'll probably try to talk you out of the deal for your sake. But there is no consumer TV you could offer me that I would trade a 20" broadcast monitor for.

20" broadcast monitors are the best CRTs for 240p. The picture quality is objectively better than everything else and next to nobody is going to find anything lacking about the size. (For the few who do, the larger PVMs are going to be hard to beat.) Consumer SD CRTs almost uniformly have bad corner convergence and warping somewhere in the geometry. They also tend to suffer patchiness or shifting on full-white screens because of overly simple high-voltage regulation, too.

Consumer SDTVs are perfectly usable and can look very nice if they have at least S-Video inputs. Component is really no worse than RGB, too, although some of the mods people have been doing to add RGB inputs are very cool as well. I can't imagine people turning up their noses at these things and outright refusing to use them. However, can you blame anyone for wanting to keep a broadcast monitor instead when they have the choice?

Like so many things, there is some bandwagon-bullshit to step around, but if you have a chance to get a 20" broadcast monitor in good shape at a reasonable price and you have the space for it, for god's sake TAKE IT.

As for the whole LCD thing, it's simple: I am willing to accept one, and only one, frame of added lag in the whole pipeline. No screen tearing or frame stutter, and I want sophisticated CRT filters in 4K resolution, too. I'll take the Pepsi Challenge with three frames of added lag any old day of the week.

As for HD CRTs, I used to champion mine, but in the end I had to admit that the way it line-doubles 240p is pretty awful. It's literally this versus this.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 04:30:49 PM by SamIAm »

Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2017, 03:38:12 PM »
I can't imagine people turning up their noses at these things and outright refusing to use them. However, can you blame anyone for wanting to keep a broadcast monitor instead when they have the choice?

You must not go on FB very often, lol.

I had some 19" PVMs, and I sold them.  The thing about all of them that really sucks is how DEEP they are.

I wanted to use one for my MSX, but it took up literally the entire desk.   It was pretty rough.   They ended up going to good homes though so it's whatever.

The thing about 20" broadcast monitors though, is, they often have issues now too.   I watched someone locally buy a NOS 20" one, and it needed cap work, and the screen looked like /    \

That isn't really awesome.  Especially for how much it cost him.

It died on him, also.  I don't know if he ever got it serviced.

If you don't have someone who wants to open and fiddle around with those things, it's not particularly great anymore.  You have to get really lucky to find one that isn't goony, for a reasonable price.

Now, people are starting to get stupid.   They're assuming ANY crt is $$$$$$$$.

Someone locally was selling a f*ckin RCA TV for 300$.    A *tiny* tabletop, antennae only twisty knob RCA TV.

[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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SamIAm

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2017, 04:04:08 PM »
You're right, I don't go on facebook.

Getting a broadcast monitor that hasn't been used to death really is the big gamble. At this point, having to swap the caps just goes with the territory.

For some reason, Japan's prices are nowhere near as high as North America's, and I've managed to pick up four twenty-inch broadcast monitors. Two needed no work, and two basically needed a full recapping. One of the latter is still kind of goony, but the other went from having a hilariously wobbly screen to being the best display I've ever had.

Quote
Now, people are starting to get stupid.   They're assuming ANY crt is $$$$$$$$.

Someone locally was selling a f*ckin RCA TV for 300$.    A *tiny* tabletop, antennae only twisty knob RCA TV.

Occasional stupidity aside, surely the supply of consumer CRTs in the US still outstrips the demand? I just popped onto my small hometown's craigslist, and there were five posted in the free section in the last week alone.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 06:08:17 PM by SamIAm »

Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2017, 04:14:17 PM »
The prices in Japan may not be as high because tons of space to do full game room setups to photograph on Facebook aren't as big of a thing maybe?   just guessing.

America is where people will post their room with 9 monitors (all with messed up geometry) next to 90000000 other things, and probably don't play anything past a title screen anyways.

You can find TVs for free/cheap still, sure.    Finding VGA CRT monitors is starting to get dicey, around here at least.

Anything cream colored is now "vintage retro rare 500$plz" it is starting to seem...
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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SamIAm

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2017, 04:28:45 PM »
I think there are three big reasons why CRTs are relatively unpopular in Japan:

1. The size is actually a pretty big deal when your apartment is tiny.

2. People feel extra-high pressure to have the latest gadgets, in part to support domestic gadget-making industries.

3. Throwing away a CRT costs around $50, but there were some widely-advertised campaigns a while ago that gave people limited-time discounts on that, which they jumped on.

Sony also had a Japan-exclusive line of TVs called Profeel Pro that were basically PVMs aimed at consumers. Broadcast monitors coming down in price wasn't as big of a deal with those available.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 04:42:10 PM by SamIAm »

Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2017, 05:09:08 PM »
Oh right, I forgot you can't just chuck a TV on the sidewalk in Japan.

that's how I got this stupid TV that I can't physically lift out of my car.   I was driving and just saw it on the sidewalk and went HEY A TOSHIBA! and probably looked like an idiot trying to lug it to my trunk.

My friend's house over there still has tiny TVs everywhere because of space concerns. 

With heavy lunky ass TVs comes the need for a piece of furniture that can support the thing.   I am currently wondering where I will put this TV I just found.

I have one stand that might work, otherwise it's going to go on the floor.
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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ClodBuster

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2017, 06:51:47 PM »
Good thing I serviced CRT TVs in the past, so if I happen to stumble on an old CRT sometime, I should be able to do some common repairs and geometry adjustments if needed.

(...)My Viewsonic 22" is .23mm and I paid $40 for it. Emulation with the right settings and filters looks insanely sharp on it(...)

That does look nice.
To me, it does look horrible. Because it artificially darkens the screen.
However, if you guys like it, that's OK.

Take a look at the GnG pics in this post:
https://nfgworld.com/mb/thread/661-Recreating-CRTs
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 07:42:18 PM by ClodBuster »

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jperryss

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2017, 11:43:14 PM »
To me, it does look horrible. Because it artificially darkens the screen.
However, if you guys like it, that's OK.

Take a look at the GnG pics in this post:
https://nfgworld.com/mb/thread/661-Recreating-CRTs


Yeah, this was more of an experiment than anything else. It's way too sharp and doesn't look natural (and obiously exaggerated a bit due to being super close-up) but it was neat to see. I was going to use this monitor in a MAME build but ended up going with a softer 19" shadow mask JVC along with soft15kHz. It has a nicely curved tube and is much closer to an original arcade monitor.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 11:44:55 PM by jperryss »

Arkhan

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2017, 02:19:19 AM »
Yeah, I bet she's got curved tubes.

huuuhuuu
[Fri 19:34]<nectarsis> been wanting to try that one for awhile now Ope
[Fri 19:33]<Opethian> l;ol huge dong

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Necromancer

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Re: Component Video & RGB OSSC VS FRAMEMEISTER Comparison
« Reply #44 on: November 28, 2017, 02:23:12 AM »
lol I just found a like 27" toshiba theater vision TV on a lawn.

I broke the bottom tried to load that f*cker in the car, but it might work.

I have to like, get help to get it in my house because it's yuuuuuge.

Is that a big wood floor console model or are you just a pussy?  :P
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