Author Topic: Post first impressions of TG-16 emulation -> 11.27.06: SSS, DE & Victory Run  (Read 3616 times)

esteban

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I don't understand why that dude can't talk more about the filters.  Why would such a thing be so secret?  What a douche.
SHHHHHHHHHHH! It's a secret! :)

He just doesn't want to risk looking bad in the eyes of his employer. I don't know how much he is self-censoring and how much constraint is actually imposed on him, but either way, he doesn't provide any meaty info.
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Keranu

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That's a very fascinating post of Mr. John Lee that you posted, Steve. Hudson has been hiding nothing but secrets from us the past year.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

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Awesome, I can't wait to hear your impressions of the games you've played and see what you'll add to your site! :)

For folks who are interested in this topic (TG-16's somewhat lackluster emulation in VC), I suggest you check out these threads:

1. Husdon forums: Military Madness is poorly emulated in VC

Be sure to check out the post by 9Nails, since he disscusses Bomberman '93 and even posted videos (DUO vs. Wii VC) on YouTube:

Direct link to YouTube:


NOTE: Military Madness is truly, truly bad! The scrolling is choppy and the music slows down! As you can imagine, this crappy emulation really, really hurts the flow of the game and makes it a chore to play. MM was not the quickest game to begin with, slowing it down further makes it unappealing to new audiences! Hudson is really lame on this one, as far as I am concerned. Folks paid good money, goddammit. The least they could provide was adequate emulation.



3. Hudson responds: Addressing Turbo Emulation on Nintendo Wii Virtual Console.

Be sure to read John Master Lee's post, since he has provided the only official response from Hudson about the emulation issues... and he didn't reveal much... but he does hint at why the filtering was chosen... can any of you guys figure it out?

Here's the relevant section (emphasis added!):

Quote from: John Master Lee @ Hudson
The Wii hardware is distinct, so there are distinct technical challenges, and there are distinct rules we have to follow as a matter of policy regarding how emulation needs to be handled. The emulator that we currently use is following these technical specs and guidelines. And no, despite conspiracy theorists, we are not deliberately trying to mask dated graphics, because the Turbo system still has some of the most impressive graphics of its generation. I may be throwing you guys too much of a bone here, but if you actually study the differences in the graphics between some of the original game and the new VC versions, you may actually figure out why the graphics are filtered at this stage. OK, I can say no more.


So, can any of you folks figure out what Master Lee is hinting at the close of this passage?


Well, I typed out a huge post on that thread and now Hudson's site is down(again).

As for what Master Lee is hinting at, maybe his and Hudson USA's opinion is that it's not masking the graphics, but making them even more detailed since you could consider the blurs extra shades.  :roll:

What he isn't hinting at, but is obvious from reading the Hudson forums and site is that those guys have nothing to do with making Hudson's games. They're pretty much just a PR outlet for North America and seem to pull most of what they say out of their ass when it comes to questions only the real Hudson Soft can answer.

I believe that Hudson Japan/Konami doesn't care enough to do the emulation properly and figure that they'll sell as many downloads either way.

From what I've heard, the other VC console's emulation isn't filtered. But either way, we all know that clear, quality Turbo emulation could easily be done on the Wii and for what they're charging, it should be.

And Steve, I can provide you with custom video(s), screenshots, a write up or anything else you want of Military Madness VC for your site. I'll have coverage of MM VC on my own site as well, but I can put together stuff specifically how you want it. Also, I don't know if I mentioned it yet, but I found another MM review, I think from GamePro. Do you need it?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 02:00:59 PM by Black_Tiger »
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Keranu

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Yeah I can't connect to Hudson's site either. I was hoping to read that thread.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Black Tiger

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Quote from: John Master Lee @ Hudson
The Wii hardware is distinct, so there are distinct technical challenges, and there are distinct rules we have to follow

Guess what? Unlike every other video game system ever made, the Wii is distinct. Apparently I never noticed that games have been exactly the same since Pong.  #-o


Quote
there are distinct rules we have to follow as a matter of policy

In other words, before Hudson even began work on the emulation, they decided to make it blurry and buggy and can't renege on their commitment to do things half-assed.  :clap:


Quote
I may be throwing you guys too much of a bone here, but if you actually study the differences in the graphics between some of the original game and the new VC versions, you may actually figure out why the graphics are filtered at this stage. OK, I can say no more.

I honestly think that this guy has no clue, doesn't understand emulation or games in general himself and is just one of the customer support guys who was forwarded an emulation complaint as if it were any other phone call, but is trying to put a hip spin on it.  8)
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Keranu

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Quote from: John Master Lee @ Hudson
I may be throwing you guys too much of a bone here, but if you actually study the differences in the graphics between some of the original game and the new VC versions, you may actually figure out why the graphics are filtered at this stage. OK, I can say no more.

I honestly think that this guy has no clue, doesn't understand emulation or games in general himself and is just one of the customer support guys who was forwarded an emulation complaint as if it were any other phone call, but is trying to put a hip spin on it.  8)
Haha, so true  8) .
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

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He is indeed hip. I bet he wears sunglasses at night.

Keranu

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Even when driving at night.  8)
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

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Man, he is hipper than hip!

Black Tiger

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Hudson Entertainment's site is back up.

Since I posted this there I might as well show it here as well-

http://superpcenginegrafx.com/wii_video_temp.html

It's a preview of my VC/Turbo video comparison page.
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Necromancer

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Nice looking page Black Tiger.  Those rollover screenshots really show the differences a lot better than the video (likely YouTube's fault - surely the originals look better).  Now I'm almost tempted to have the s-video mod done to my Duo.  Your s-video captures look sooooo much better than composite.
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esteban

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Black_Tiger -- great stuff! I concur with Necro, the rollover effect is clearly the most effective way to illustrate the differences. You used the same technique with the Sapphire bootleg article, and I think you really help folks by making the comparison so easy to do. Remember those puzzles for children where you have to identify the differences between two pictures?  Those puzzles can be tough to solve. Likewise, identifying the differences between side-by-side screenshots can require a lot of effort.


Nice looking page Black Tiger.  Those rollover screenshots really show the differences a lot better than the video (likely YouTube's fault - surely the originals look better).  Now I'm almost tempted to have the s-video mod done to my Duo.  Your s-video captures look sooooo much better than composite.
Yeah, 9Nails (who made the YouTube comparison video) was frustrated with the way YouTube downgraded the image. His post says that the video doesn't truly capture the differences.
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Joe Redifer

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Great page.  I think I need to get my eyes checked because the Wii versions cannot be that blurry.  I think one of us needs to infiltrate the FBI and discover the super-secret classified reason that Hudson is using this filter.

akamichi

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Man, the Wii's screens are too damn blurry!  I'd probably get a headache trying to play for any length of time.  Thanks for giving us a look Black_Tiger.  Nicely done.

The one thing I learned from the page is... I need to get my Duo modded for S-Video. :)

Black Tiger

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Man, the Wii's screens are too damn blurry!  I'd probably get a headache trying to play for any length of time.  Thanks for giving us a look Black_Tiger.  Nicely done.

The one thing I learned from the page is... I need to get my Duo modded for S-Video. :)


Yeah, I'd started work on a Turbo/PCE composite versus S-Video mod page that will use rollover images and videos and such. But like too many projects, I still haven't finished.

What stands out most is how with S-Video (and I assume RGB) the colors look vibrant like they're supposed to. But it the improved clarity actually totally changes dithered graphics that blended into unnatural colors through composite.

When I first got my Duro RX modded, I put up a small page with a couple decent examples-

http://members.shaw.ca/turboduo/svideo.html


I hadn't really compared S-Video captured screenshots to Magic Engine ones before and was actually pretty surprised myself at how close they are.  :P
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