Author Topic: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games  (Read 3083 times)

turbofan1

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #105 on: October 06, 2007, 11:05:16 AM »
I didn't want to say anything negative about the game,like guts said I don`t want hurt anyones feeling`s.But if you want me to nitpick.When you leave the first building,you fight red blobs and red/orange like cats.The red blobs are easy,but the cats are hard to defeat.Allot of times they would just block my attack,and in turn would get my asskicked.Than I would die,and would have to start the game over.If you where lucky enough to avoid those bastards,you would have to go back and forth between the first building and save the game several time in order to level up and defeat them.Well it probably doesn't seem hard to you,because you have probably played the game A hundred times.

Don`t bitch at me about the cinemas.I really don`t care anyways.And if there that hard to do,just f*cking leave them out than.And to be honest about that,the opening cinema sucks.So there you have my glaring review.

Keranu

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #106 on: October 06, 2007, 11:47:28 AM »
I actually haven't tried the demo yet, but, atleast in the beta, I don't recall it being really hard.  And I really like the graphics.  The cinemas are difficult to do though, & I don't like them.  I'm kind of hoping we'll be able to change them, as I think Keranu figured out a better way to do them, plus Black Tiger is now our art director.  Did I mention that cinemas are difficult?  Cuz they are!  I give Keranu credit for trying, it's deffinitly something new to him.  I can't even remember the name of the guy that bailed on us & Mindrec who did cinemas, but that put us in a jam.
Yeah as I've said before, I'm really not too comfortable with the cinemas, especially the earlier ones. However I'm still glad I tacked the project for two reasons: 1. ) I learned a lot from it and 2. ) We managed to actually get cinemas in the game :D . But yeah, if time permits, I'll try cleaning up the cinemas more. As stated, thanks to talking with Black_Tiger, I've found out a much easier way to design cinemas for the Turbo very similar to how artists did back in the day. However I don't think I'm going to take up the next project that requires cinemas as it's a lot of work, but I would like to give it another try someday now that I have a much better method of making them.

Quote from: turbofan1
I didn't want to say anything negative about the game,like guts said I don`t want hurt anyones feeling`s.But if you want me to nitpick.When you leave the first building,you fight red blobs and red/orange like cats.The red blobs are easy,but the cats are hard to defeat.Allot of times they would just block my attack,and in turn would get my asskicked.Than I would die,and would have to start the game over.If you where lucky enough to avoid those bastards,you would have to go back and forth between the first building and save the game several time in order to level up and defeat them.Well it probably doesn't seem hard to you,because you have probably played the game A hundred times.
Solution: Level up :) . Most RPGs start the game with strong enemies that requires you to do a little leveling up before you can move on. Just be sure to buy whatever weapons and armor you can afford in the castle you start out in (and save right away) and just level up two or three times before moving onto the next town. I should also point out that Mysterious Song charges less money for older weapons and armors in later towns you advanced to, so it makes shopping easier.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Emerald Rocker

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #107 on: October 06, 2007, 04:19:10 PM »
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Most RPGs start the game with strong enemies that requires you to do a little leveling up before you can move on.

Well no, not really.  Most RPGs start off pretty light.  The ones that start with hard enemies are exceptions, and I know this because I can name them -- Dragon Knight, Cosmic Fantasy 2.  The thing is, those games have strong hooks to keep people playing.

Now, I haven't played the MS demo, so I can't say whether or not it has a strong hook.  But if the game is really hard at first, and the opening cinematic doesn't enchant people, then there's not much hope that they'll want to keep playing.  You don't want to drive people off before they get to the good stuff!
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GUTS

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #108 on: October 06, 2007, 05:39:35 PM »
Well honestly the art in the opening cinema is really, really bad, like the Zelda games on CDI bad.  The in game graphics are ok in a NES sort of way, but it would have been better to axe the cinemas completely if that's how they all look since they give a really bad impression.

Necromancer

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #109 on: October 06, 2007, 07:43:16 PM »
I've played through M.S. 69 times (my lucky number) and haven't had that many problems starting out.  Anyone who can't get to the first town just sucks at playing video games and should stick to something easier, like stealing candy from babies or jacking little old ladies at the park.
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Keranu

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #110 on: October 07, 2007, 02:52:38 PM »
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Most RPGs start the game with strong enemies that requires you to do a little leveling up before you can move on.

Well no, not really.  Most RPGs start off pretty light.  The ones that start with hard enemies are exceptions, and I know this because I can name them -- Dragon Knight, Cosmic Fantasy 2.  The thing is, those games have strong hooks to keep people playing.
I disagree with that as from my experience with RPGs, you tend to have to level up once or twice in the beginning before you can comfortably move on in the game. You could get away without leveling up right away in probably many RPGs, but it's a lot easier to just to take the time to do some light leveling up.

One thing I should note for people having trouble with Mysterious Song is to not venture off too far between the castle you start off in and the first town because after a certain point in the distance, the tougher enemies will kick in and it would require luck to safely travel between the castle and town without leveling up a couple times. So like I mentioned in an earlier post, immediately purchase whatever weapons and armor you can afford after talking to the king, and just level up a couple of times against the enemies that are just outside the castle, not the enemies that are near the next town.

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Now, I haven't played the MS demo, so I can't say whether or not it has a strong hook.  But if the game is really hard at first, and the opening cinematic doesn't enchant people, then there's not much hope that they'll want to keep playing.  You don't want to drive people off before they get to the good stuff!
The game does have a strong hook, but it's not just hard because some enemies might be tuff, but because the game will require some strategy, which is a great thing. You make a great point though that the start of the game should interests people, but there are definitely much jucier parts throughout the game and the ending is pretty nice!

Another thing I'd like to comment about on the cinemas is that the art isn't all that makes the cinemas. What really sells me on the cinemas is the dialog: the script, the voice acting, and the sound editing are all pretty top notch if you ask me! What's amazing is that the voices were recorded and edited from people's home computers and not done in a professional studio, yet the outcome is just as good, if not, better than what you would get from a studio.

Quote from: GUTS
Well honestly the art in the opening cinema is really, really bad, like the Zelda games on CDI bad.  The in game graphics are ok in a NES sort of way, but it would have been better to axe the cinemas completely if that's how they all look since they give a really bad impression.
The cinemas went through a lot of changes throughout development and funny enough, I think this is represented in the game because the cinemas at the end look nicer than the ones in the beginning. I'd like to redo the first cinema because of this not only so it looks better, but so it blends in with the later ones. Keep in mind there are only four/five cinemas in the game, so they aren't really a distraction at all since most of the time spent is ingame. Lord_Cack's tile work really impressed all of us.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

ParanoiaDragon

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #111 on: October 07, 2007, 09:55:12 PM »
I'd personally like to see the cinemas redrawn a bit, maybe some more detail added, though, I'm not an artist like BT, so, I can't say for sure what the cinemas need.

Emerald Rocker

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #112 on: October 08, 2007, 02:53:38 PM »
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I disagree with that as from my experience with RPGs, you tend to have to level up once or twice in the beginning before you can comfortably move on in the game. You could get away without leveling up right away in probably many RPGs, but it's a lot easier to just to take the time to do some light leveling up.

People aren't complaining about a little routine leveling -- they're complaining about red cats killing them.  There's a big difference.  If you have to walk around and fight a few battles, gain a little gold or experience, that's one thing.  If you have to pray "I hope I don't run into any red cats!" while walking from the first castle to the first town, then you have a problem.

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The game does have a strong hook,

Please share!  I'm curious as to what the hook is.  Strategy and an awesome end-game are nice, but those aren't hooks.  Those are perks that reward persistence.  Hooks are things that make people *want* to be persistent and finish the game.
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #113 on: October 08, 2007, 03:30:11 PM »
I finally downloaded the demo(I've played the game so many times, I wasn't in a hurry), & I have yet to see any red cats.

Emerald Rocker

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #114 on: October 08, 2007, 03:30:37 PM »
Keranu --- Paranoia Dragon --- I see from your profiles that the two of you are writing posts.  So I just wanted to preemptively say......

YOU'RE WRONG
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Emerald Rocker

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #115 on: October 08, 2007, 03:31:10 PM »
They look like cats to me.
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #116 on: October 08, 2007, 03:34:59 PM »
Uhhh, ok.  I'm just talking about what I played for awhile last night.  What am I wrong about?  This isn't some kind of contest on who see's cats or not.  I just said I didn't see any whilie leveling up.  Are you maybe talking about those Bird Mask guys??

Emerald Rocker

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #117 on: October 08, 2007, 03:37:53 PM »
No, I'm talking about the enemies that look like cats.

Maybe they aren't in your version?  That could be why I didn't see any Bird Mask guys... the red cats ate them.
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Keranu

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #118 on: October 08, 2007, 03:38:12 PM »
People aren't complaining about a little routine leveling -- they're complaining about red cats killing them.  There's a big difference.  If you have to walk around and fight a few battles, gain a little gold or experience, that's one thing.  If you have to pray "I hope I don't run into any red cats!" while walking from the first castle to the first town, then you have a problem.
The difference isn't big at all. In the start of most RPGs, chances are you're gonna have to pray if you decide not to level up. Whether the enemies in Mysterious Song are stronger than most RPGs are not, you're still gonna have to avoid enough battles to survive if you chose not to level up.

Quote from: Emerald Rocker
Please share!  I'm curious as to what the hook is.  Strategy and an awesome end-game are nice, but those aren't hooks.  Those are perks that reward persistence.  Hooks are things that make people *want* to be persistent and finish the game.
I wouldn't want to spoil anything :) , but I think the mysterious opening itself is a hook and the other mysterious "dream sequences" you encounter in the game hook the person into uncovering what this all means. A bit like Ys I and II where you slowly discover and unravel the secrets of Ys.
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Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Keranu

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Re: My worthwhile thoughts on a few PCE games
« Reply #119 on: October 08, 2007, 03:39:10 PM »
Haha, wow too many posts going on before I could post!
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).