Author Topic: Games released on dual formats...  (Read 1874 times)

nat

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Games released on dual formats...
« on: February 05, 2007, 12:39:55 PM »
...namely, CD and HuCard.

Since this topic spans both Japanese and American-region games, it's kind of hard to pick which forum it belongs in. But since I own mostly American systems equipped with a Kisado, it's going in the American forum. Besides, the PCE sucks, anyway.  :wink: TurboGrafx-16 or bust!  :P

Today I was sitting at work thinking about Altered Beast (yes, this is truly how I pass the hours away) and how it was released on both CD and HuCard. Then my mental horizon expanded to include other titles that were brought out on both mediums. In the end, I was just asking myself, "Why?" In some cases the answer is more forthcoming than others.

So let's see if we can list the titles that were available on both a HuCard (I use this term loosely to include TurboChips since I can't even force myself to use that term) and CD. Also, which version is better?:

Altered Beast - Why did this game see a CD release? Does anyone know whether the HuCard or the CD came out first? Or was it a simultaneous release? Why, lord, WHY? I own the HuCard and have never played the CD but I understand the ONLY difference is the inclusion of some cutscenes. The CD version does not feature superior music, in fact, it uses the "chip" music from the HuCard. Not to mention this game will ONLY work with System Card 1.0. Why couldn't they have included the cutscenes on the HuCard and been done with it? VERDICT: CD version is superfluous. Probably has loading delays as well. Not to mention you actually have to FIND a System 1.0 card. IMHO, the CD is a downgrade in all respects. Get the HuCard.

Bonk's Adventure
Bonk's Revenge
Bomberman
- Well, this is a pretty easy one. These three were released as part of the Duo's launch 4-in-1 pack-in. The CD versions are identical to the HuCard versions. Further, they promote the CD format while at the same time saving money and material. VERDICT: Save space in your cabinet/on your shelf-- get the 4-in-1 CD. Four AWESOME games on one CD, you can't go wrong. If you have a CD console, you're going to get Gate Of Thunder anyway. Now, if these had been individual CD releases that would be another story......

Bonk's 3: Bonk's Big Adventure - I remember when Bonk 3 CD came out. At the time, and for at least 10 years after, I always believed the CD came first and the HuCard was released later to make it more accessible to folks without the CD system (like me, at the time). I didn't even know there was a HuCard version I could get until around a year after the CD version was released. It wasn't until a few years ago I found out the HuCard actually came first, and the CD wasn't even released in Japan. Since I haven't played the CD version, I can't give a real quality verdict here. I HAVE, however, listened to the CD soundtrack in MP3 form and I have to say I actually PREFER the HuCard. Maybe because it's the HuCard I've always owned, but Bonk just doesn't seem right without the "chip" music. I understand there are also some additional bonus rounds on the CD version not found on the HuCard. I've never played these, but they'd have to be pretty special to sway me away from my beloved "chip" soundtrack. VERDICT: There is not much of a "why" on this one as they offered enough on the CD to justify it's release. But I'm going to go with HuCard, since that's the version I've always owned & loved.

Darius - This one's not as clear cut as the first few. On one hand, we have a HuCard which is "turbo-charged" for the SuperGrafx but features inferior music. On the other, we have a version with flickery bosses but a kick-ass Dolby-enhanced soundtrack. WHY? Why did they not combine the two and release a single CD with the enhanced soundtrack AND the SuperGrafx support? Sure, the SuperGrafx doesn't have a CD deck out of the box, but neither does the TurboGrafx or PC Engine.  I've never played the SuperGrafx version, but there is a copy in the mail to me as we speak. But honestly, the flickering on the bosses is not all that bad to begin with. I'm not sure it really needed fixing. They could've spent their efforts on a game a little more in need of such help, where bosses actually completely DISAPPEAR the sprite clash is so bad (*cough* R-Type *cough*). VERDICT: I'm going to have to go with the CD here. Easier to find, cheaper, far superior soundtrack. All you lose is bosses who don't disappear before your eyes. Go for the HuCard if you have a solo SuperGrafx without a CD console. Otherwise, CD all the way.

R-Type - Ah, good ol' R-Type. Poor R-Type. Fun game with great level design, almost arcade perfect. But that damn FLICKER!! Flicker they didn't bother to fix on the CD release. Whole bosses disappear and then rematerialize right on top of you. The CD offered better quality music, but a few tunes were changed to much controversy. It also included cutscenes and an intro. It also did away with the "Credit" system and allowed unlimited continues. VERDICT: For me, it's CD version all the way. Most importantly, I can continue an unlimited number of times. In this game, this is very much needed. That aside, I personally like most of the CD music better than the "chip" tunes despite owning and playing the HuCard for years before getting the CD. Also, perhaps the biggest one-up the CD has on the HuCard is for Japanese-region players. I think everyone knows what I mean.

Sidearms HyperDyne - I don't know much about this game. I've never owned it in any form, but there is a copy in the mail to me (HuCard) right now. I played the HuCard once a long time ago somewhere and thought it would be a cool game to get at some point. Apparently, I didn't get around to that until 2007. Must not have impressed me THAT much. Either way, this makes the verdict here a tough one. As I understand it, all the CD offers the HuCard doesn't is a alternate play mode called "Before Christ". How different this is from the regular game is beyond me. VERDICT: I'm going with HuCard here. But since I really don't know what I'm talking about, take this one with a grain of salt. However, games released on CD that use "chip" music and don't take advantage of the larger storage medium don't impress me. Or does it actually have a redbook soundtrack? I don't even know.

Raiden/Super Raiden - I know even less about this game so I'm not even going to give it a verdict. In fact, is Super Raiden even the same game or is it a sequel along the lines of Super Air Zonk? I don't know. But I'm absolutely SURE someone here is about to tell me all about it.

Hmm. That's all I can think of. Any other dual format releases that I missed?

ccovell

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 01:20:12 PM »
Re: Sidearms Special.
The CD version has some great redbook audio.  Sometimes I prefer the sound of the CD version, sometimes I prefer the tunes of the chip version.  They're both really good.

Re: [Super] Raiden.
The game is the same as Raiden (but with an extra level??), except that your ship moves faster apparently, and the music - excellent but synthy - is on CD.

Don't forget there's also Daisenpu / Daisenpu Custom on CD.

Both Populous: Promised Lands and Neo Nectaris contain both new "games" as well as the HuCard versions on CD.

I'm sure there are others.

vestcoat

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« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 01:45:50 PM by vestcoat »
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td741

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 01:34:47 PM »
Err... I find it strange how someone can give verdicts on alternate versions without having tried them?   :?

Altered Beast CD:
I don't mind the CD version of Altered Beast.  Does the HuCard version have all of the speech? (I.E. "Power Up"?)  The CD version doesn't really have a lot of loading delays.  Since there isn't any red book audio, the game sort of loads as you're playing...  A lot like "Tenchi O Kurau".  I finally managed to find a CD1.0 control card so I'm fairly happy with the CD version of Altered Beast...

Bonk's 3: Bonk's Big Adventure
Some people might hate me for saying this, but Bonk's chip music just annoys me to no end... Especially the end of level tune.  *shudder*.  I pounced on Bonk 3 CD when I had the chance (I think it was released after the HuCard.)  However, the annoying end of level tune is still in chip though *AARRGH*  Anyway, the CD version's added bonuses levels weren't all that great, and if I remember correctly there are missing frames of animations on the giant Bonks which annoyed me more then the chip music.  I traded the CD version a while back and kept the HuCard.  I generally play Bonk with the volume on low. :P

Sidearms HyperDyne
I haven't played in a while, but if memory serves me correctly the "Before Christ" mode is mostly different in how the power up schemes work.  AFAIR, The power up schemes work more like conventional shooters where you pick up power ups to either power up your weapon or switch to an alternate weapon (instead of the gradius like weapon selection as you pick up power ups).  I think it has red book audio.  I remember preferring playing the game in BC mode then the regular mode.  As such, I would recommend getting the CD version.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 01:36:28 PM by td741 »

vestcoat

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 01:43:10 PM »
So far we have:

Sherlock Holmes 2,
Terraforming
Bonk's Adventure
Bonk's Revenge
Bomberman
Nectaris
Bonk 3
Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf
Altered Beast
Populous
Side Arms
Raiden
R-Type
Super Darius
Darius Plus
Darius Alpha
and all the ACD/SCD games

We talked about Tengai Makyou Ziria a while back.
 
Are Space Invaders hucard and Space Invaders SCD totally different games?

What about Bikkuriman Daijikai and Bikkuriman World?
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nat

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 01:54:09 PM »
Err... I find it strange how someone can give verdicts on alternate versions without having tried them?   :?

I can since I have played at least one version of the game and I know what is different on the "other" version. Not too difficult. For example, Darius. I have not played the SuperGrafx version yet, however I know that the only thing different is lack of flicker in the boss fights. There is very little flicker in the game otherwise. Even the flicker on the bosses is pretty minor compared to some other titles. Also, I have heard the chip versions of the tunes from that HuCard. So though I have not played it, I know exactly what I will experience when I do. Since I own and love the CD soundtrack, that version gets my vote. Simple!
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 02:33:06 PM by nat »

Joe Redifer

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 02:02:57 PM »
Sherlock Holmes 2 was a HuCard?

Also, you can play All-Turd Beast with any CD system card.... just don't turn into the beast.  The game only freezes after you turn into the beast if you're not using system card 1.0.

Black Tiger

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 02:03:28 PM »
I believe that Altered Beast CD has more/some ingame voice and that the HuCard version is the one that is unplayably difficult/cheap.


I haven't played much of Bonk 3 CD, but I prefer the HuCard. After I got my Turbo Duo, I usually only played the CD Bonks, but still prefer the HuCards. Especially if you have a TE or GT.


Darius Plus recycles bosses to save on memory. There's only like half of them on the HuCard, plus Super Darius has the arcade's intros and multiple endings as well as a built-in Darius Alpha. Darius Plus isn't really a loss in the music department, it has some amazing chip renditions of the great arcade/CD soundtrack. Using a SuperGrafx loses flicker on the bosses only, the rest of the minor flicker is still there.


The U.S. R-Type HuCard is awesome and has a better soundtrack than the lame R-Type Complete. The 'Complete' stands for "we almost completely ruined this game". The so called cutscenes take away from the overall experience more than they add. I'd rather play the PC Engine HuCards instead of the CD version.


The Side Arms HuCard has everything visually that the arcade port on Side Arms Special does, as well as most of the arcade perfect sounding sfx. But I believe that there are a few extra digitized effects in 'Special. The Before Christ mode has entirely redrawn graphics and different bosses. The gameplay is kinda different and the weapons aren't all exactly the same. Its basically a remix of the original. The CD soundtrack alone makes Side Arms Special a must own even if you already own the HuCard.


Sherlock Holmes 2 was a HuCard?

Also, you can play All-Turd Beast with any CD system card.... just don't turn into the beast.  The game only freezes after you turn into the beast if you're not using system card 1.0.

Don't you need to be a beast for the boss to appear?

When I tried it without the 1.0 card, I found that when I got to the boss fight as a wolf, he just walked off screen and the game wouldn't begin the boss fight.


Err... I find it strange how someone can give verdicts on alternate versions without having tried them?   :?

I can since I have played at least one version of the game and I know what is different on the "other" version. Not too difficult. For example, Darius. I have not played the SuperGrafx version yet, however I know that the only thing different is lack of flicker in the boss fights. There is very little flicker in the game otherwise. Even the flicker on the bosses is pretty minor compared to some other titles. Also, I have heard the chip versions of the tunes from that HuCard. So though I have not played it, I know exactly what I will experience when I do. Since I own and love the CD soundtrack, that version gets my vote. Simple!

Except that that the boss fight flicker is far from the only difference.  :wink:


So far we have:

Sherlock Holmes 2,
Terraforming
Bonk's Adventure
Bonk's Revenge
Bomberman
Nectaris
Bonk 3
Jack Nicklaus Turbo Golf
Altered Beast
Populous
Side Arms
Raiden
R-Type
Super Darius
Darius Plus
Darius Alpha
and all the ACD/SCD games

We talked about Tengai Makyou Ziria a while back.
 
Are Space Invaders hucard and Space Invaders SCD totally different games?

What about Bikkuriman Daijikai and Bikkuriman World?


He was talking about the CD and HuCard formats. Not different CD formats.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 02:12:38 PM by Black_Tiger »
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ParanoiaDragon

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 02:07:04 PM »
"Are Space Invaders hucard and Space Invaders SCD totally different games?

What about Bikkuriman Daijikai and Bikkuriman World?"


The Hucard Space Invaders, is a brand new game, kind of like Galago 88/90.  The cd one, is a bunch of different versions of the original game

The cd Bikkuriman is like a quiz game, so, it's totally unconnected other then in name.  

As for Bonk 3, I love the cd music, but it also doesn't fit Bonk's style.  However, Bonk 3's chip music, is inferior to the first 2 games.  One of these days, I might recompose all the music, for the cd version, to have the right sound to it.

Oh, & I think they mean, that Sherlock Holmes 2 could be used with 2.0, but took advantage of 3.0.  Same goes for Terraforming, Macross 2036.  Popful Mail, Brandish, & 3x3 Eyes can be used with 3.0 or Arcade cd, & I'm sure there are more.

Oh, & yes, do DO need the 1.0 card for Altered Beast ](*,)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 02:08:51 PM by ParanoiaDragon »

vestcoat

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 02:32:13 PM »
He was talking about the CD and HuCard formats. Not different CD formats.
#-o

(and yes, Sherlock 2 and Terraforming are really just CDs labeled as SCDs.)

Thanks for the info, ParanoiaDrago!
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Joe Redifer

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 02:32:31 PM »
Quote

Oh, & yes, do DO need the 1.0 card for Altered Beast


No you don't.  If you encounter Neff 3 times as a human, he'll fight you.  I made it up to level 2 with the Super System Card.  If you turn into the beast, the screen stops scrolling.  You are stuck there forever unless you happen to be using the System 1.0 card.

Black Tiger

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 02:44:22 PM »
Quote

Oh, & yes, do DO need the 1.0 card for Altered Beast


No you don't.  If you encounter Neff 3 times as a human, he'll fight you.  I made it up to level 2 with the Super System Card.  If you turn into the beast, the screen stops scrolling.  You are stuck there forever unless you happen to be using the System 1.0 card.

I guess I only did a couple laps through the level before giving up.  :clap:


He was talking about the CD and HuCard formats. Not different CD formats.
#-o

(and yes, Sherlock 2 and Terraforming are really just CDs labeled as SCDs.)

Thanks for the info, ParanoiaDrago!

I still think that all so called bicompatible CDs are just the lower format with an extra label on the package. I will until someone can show some hard evidence to the contrary.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 02:46:25 PM by Black_Tiger »
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nat

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2007, 02:47:03 PM »
I believe that Altered Beast CD has more/some ingame voice and that the HuCard version is the one that is unplayably difficult/cheap.

I don't think the game is unfair at all. I have the HuCard and I can get to level 3 without using a continue. I only got the game two months ago. I used to play on the Genesis back in the day. I don't feel the HuCard is any more difficult than the Genesis cart was. It's just a matter of memorizing where and when the enemies are goin to pop up and devise evasion tactics. I actually think it's a pretty fun game.

Quote
The U.S. R-Type HuCard is awesome and has a better soundtrack than the lame R-Type Complete. The 'Complete' stands for "we almost completely ruined this game". The so called cutscenes take away from the overall experience more than they add. I'd rather play the PC Engine HuCards instead of the CD version.

 [-X We'll have to agree to disagree here.

Quote
The Side Arms HuCard has everything visually that the arcade port on Side Arms Special does, as well as most of the arcade perfect sounding sfx. But I believe that there are a few extra digitized effects in 'Special. The Before Christ mode has entirely redrawn graphics and different bosses. The gameplay is kinda different and the weapons aren't all exactly the same. Its basically a remix of the original. The CD soundtrack alone makes Side Arms Special a must own even if you already own the HuCard.

The inclusion of a CD soundtrack might sway me a bit. I was under the impression the CD just recycled the chip music.

Quote
Darius Plus recycles bosses to save on memory. There's only like half of them on the HuCard, plus Super Darius has the arcade's intros and multiple endings as well as a built-in Darius Alpha. Darius Plus isn't really a loss in the music department, it has some amazing chip renditions of the great arcade/CD soundtrack. Using a SuperGrafx loses flicker on the bosses only, the rest of the minor flicker is still there.

...

Except that that the boss fight flicker is far from the only difference.  :wink:

This new information just goes to further solidify my verdict that the CD is the superior version.  8)

Quote
He was talking about the CD and HuCard formats. Not different CD formats.

Right-o.

Tatsujin

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2007, 03:04:17 PM »
bikkuriman daijikai is a complete different game and only based on the bikkuriman theme. nothing to do with the wonderboy in monsterland clone ;)

OMG, how i wished a CD version of Street fighter II' as well or even better a Turbo SF II. using ACD technology on the grafical level of a Garou densetsu special. it would kick the SFC's ass directly to hell.



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Black Tiger

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Re: Games released on dual formats...
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2007, 03:19:43 PM »
bikkuriman daijikai is a complete different game and only based on the bikkuriman theme. nothing to do with the wonderboy in monsterland clone ;)

OMG, how i wished a CD version of Street fighter II' as well or even better a Turbo SF II. using ACD technology on the grafical level of a Garou densetsu special. it would kick the SFC's ass directly to hell.


Screw that, how about some expert homebrewers whip us up some ACD Street Fighter Alpha 3?  :P
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