VC game releases not restricted by region

[Odonadon]

But once again, look at how well normal TG16 games are doing on the VC to begin with. I don't see why these same people wouldn't download Japanese games, especially if they're translated. I think one of the reasons why TG16 has done so well on the VC is because people haven't got to experience the TG16 and the VC is a great way of being introduced to it.

Interesting point and you're going to make me contradict something I said earlier and was too lazy to edit   I think the reason the normal TG16 games are doing so well is because it's relatively "new" to mainstream and new gamers (I think the NES, SNES and Genny VC sales mainly fall into the nostalgia category because of their previously installed fan-base).  That being said, I don't think they would be interested in a newly translated game, but would rather be perfectly content with the library as it is, not to mention the other VC offerings.

The big appeal with translated games is that we know about them, we can see their potential, and we want to play said game ourselves .  Joe Smith has no clue, and probably doesn't care.  Joe Smith is the target audience for the Wii.  See the problem?  

OD

[FM-77]

How do you know the games are doing well? Are you judging from message board posts?

[Necromancer]

Interesting point and you're going to make me contradict something I said earlier and was too lazy to edit   I think the reason the normal TG16 games are doing so well is because it's relatively "new" to mainstream and new gamers (I think the NES, SNES and Genny VC sales mainly fall into the nostalgia category because of their previously installed fan-base).  That being said, I don't think they would be interested in a newly translated game, but would rather be perfectly content with the library as it is, not to mention the other VC offerings.

The big appeal with translated games is that we know about them, we can see their potential, and we want to play said game ourselves .  Joe Smith has no clue, and probably doesn't care.  Joe Smith is the target audience for the Wii.  See the problem?  

OD

I think that your logic is flawed OD.  To Joe Smith, everything on the TG-16 (and PCE) is unknown.  Most people out there have heard of Bonk and Bomberman, but most likely because these franchises extend beyond the Turbo.  They wouldn't know if a translated game was originally released in the US or not anyway.

I do agree that the chances of anything meaningful being translated are slim, but I could see Hudson translating some games that have very little Japanese text.  Something like Bomberman '94 would be relatively easy to translate and Hudson must think that it is superior to '93, since they released '94 to V.C. in Japan instead of '93.  Considering that Nintendo will likely have 10 million Wiis* sold by the end of the year, if one half of one percent buys a game on V.C. for $4, Nintendo will rake in $200,000.  If Hudson receives half, that's a tidy profit.  Not a huge gain, but not a huge risk either - .5% wouldn't be a hard number to hit.

[Odonadon]

To answer Seldane's post I don't know that at all.  Just a guess.

I think that your logic is flawed OD.  To Joe Smith, everything on the TG-16 (and PCE) is unknown.  Most people out there have heard of Bonk and Bomberman, but most likely because these franchises extend beyond the Turbo.  They wouldn't know if a translated game was originally released in the US or not anyway.

Exactly, so what would motivate Joe Smith to want to download a translated game instead of the already available titles (of which there are already quite a few)?  I mean for us, the real appeal of translating a game is either because we've exhausted the library as it is and want something more, or there is a particular game that us as fans really want to play.  This doesn't apply to Joe Smith. 

I doubt most people have heard of Bomberman or Bonk.  *Some* people, yes.  Again I don't know of any stats to support this, but I'll bet a good 85% or so of VC games are sold people who at one point had played the game, loved the game, always wanted to play the game, heard it was good, whatever.  I think people who are interested in new games will likely stick to the Wii games.  Plus there is no marketing system in place to promote a "new" VC game.

The people who would purchase a translated game would be largely us and our ilk, and there really aren't many of us

Does anyone know of any VC sales charts?

I do agree that the chances of anything meaningful being translated are slim, but I could see Hudson translating some games that have very little Japanese text.  Something like Bomberman '94 would be relatively easy to translate and Hudson must think that it is superior to '93, since they released '94 to V.C. in Japan instead of '93.  Considering that Nintendo will likely have 10 million Wiis* sold by the end of the year, if one half of one percent buys a game on V.C. for $4, Nintendo will rake in $200,000.  If Hudson receives half, that's a tidy profit.  Not a huge gain, but not a huge risk either - .5% wouldn't be a hard number to hit.

Something like a shooter, which has very little text all around would be relatively simple to translate, but the question remains why?  The demand will have to be there.  Even if Hudson is lucky enough to make $100,000 in one year, the profit is so minor compared to the development cost (coding, translating, testing) why would they bother?  And I think half of one percent is extremely optimistic when we're talking a recently translated game.  Maybe Bomberman '94 will be okay if Bomberman '93 really takes off.  But there is no indication of that happening

OD

[Necromancer]

My point was that Joe Smith will not care if it is a new/translated game or old/domestic game.  The average gamer would pick games by how fun they are to play (or appear to be anyway) and not by the original release status.  I would expect Hudson to translate a few games long before they publish every US game, 'cause some of the US games suck (blasphemy!).  Something like Bomberman '94 would surely sell better than some domestic titles (*cough* Deep Blue *cough*).  Unless Hudson is recoding these games from the ground up, the development cost for translating these games would not be terribly high.  Fixing a few lines of text should be a cake walk for people that code games for a living and have access to competent translators.

I doubt most people have heard of Bomberman or Bonk.  *Some* people, yes.  Again I don't know of any stats to support this, but I'll bet a good 85% or so of VC games are sold people who at one point had played the game, loved the game, always wanted to play the game, heard it was good, whatever.  I think people who are interested in new games will likely stick to the Wii games.  Plus there is no marketing system in place to promote a "new" VC game.

The people who would purchase a translated game would be largely us and our ilk, and there really aren't many of us
 

Interesting point and you're going to make me contradict something I said earlier and was too lazy to edit   I think the reason the normal TG16 games are doing so well is because it's relatively "new" to mainstream and new gamers (I think the NES, SNES and Genny VC sales mainly fall into the nostalgia category because of their previously installed fan-base).  That being said, I don't think they would be interested in a newly translated game, but would rather be perfectly content with the library as it is, not to mention the other VC offerings.

The big appeal with translated games is that we know about them, we can see their potential, and we want to play said game ourselves .  Joe Smith has no clue, and probably doesn't care.  Joe Smith is the target audience for the Wii.  See the problem?  

OD

So which is it - are TG-16 games selling well due to established fans or new fans?    If a translated game is good, it would appeal to both camps.  As you said, Joe Smith wouldn't care that a game is translated.  I can't see how whether or not a game was translated recently or back in the day would affect his buying decision.

Quick Side Note: According to 1up.com, 1.5 million V.C. games had been sold as of 1/24/07.  Unfortunately, they don't have a breakdown for each separate console, so the TG-16's numbers remain a mystery.

[Odonadon]

My point was that Joe Smith will not care if it is a new/translated game or old/domestic game.  The average gamer would pick games by how fun they are to play (or appear to be anyway) and not by the original release status.  I would expect Hudson to translate a few games long before they publish every US game, 'cause some of the US games suck (blasphemy!).  Something like Bomberman '94 would surely sell better than some domestic titles (*cough* Deep Blue *cough*).  Unless Hudson is recoding these games from the ground up, the development cost for translating these games would not be terribly high.  Fixing a few lines of text should be a cake walk for people that code games for a living and have access to competent translators.

Okay I see your point, they wouldn't care.  They probably wouldn't even know.  This is my point   I don't know about how well B-man '94 would sell since '93 is already on there   Maybe in a couple years... which by then we will have our next console.  But I don't see why Hudson would do translations before they've exhausted their English game library?  In my opinion Vigilante is one of the worst games for the system, and look it was just released

There is more involved with a translation than fixing a few lines of text   As you know you just can't do a simple word for word translation.  Someone will have to script it, someone will have to edit it, someone will have to review it, someone will have to test it, etc.  We're looking at minimum a few weeks worth of time and money on the simplest of games before the game is even ready to be pushed to the VC.

So which is it - are TG-16 games selling well due to established fans or new fans?    If a translated game is good, it would appeal to both camps.  As you said, Joe Smith wouldn't care that a game is translated.  I can't see how whether or not a game was translated recently or back in the day would affect his buying decision.

I think they are selling well to people who are new to the system, where did I say it was due to established fans?  The recentness (if that's a word) of the translation has an impact because of this reason: I heard about the English version of Bonk's Adventure 20 years ago.  Quite the head-start on marketing and word of mouth.  Why would Joe Smith give a shit about a 20 year old game that was translated just now?  He wouldn't really care either way, which is a problem.  He would have to care for for him to want to buy it

I don't want to say that translations will NEVER happen, but IF they do it will have to be at exactly the right time.  Right now is FAR too early, and in a few years the Wii might be replaced by something else.  I just don't see it happening.  Something has to make Joe want to buy that VC game over Zelda or Mario.  And like I said before, I bet the VAST majority of people who are buying VC games today know of or at least have heard something about the game they are buying.  Once again, no factual data to support this, but it just seems obvious

Quick Side Note: According to 1up.com, 1.5 million V.C. games had been sold as of 1/24/07.  Unfortunately, they don't have a breakdown for each separate console, so the TG-16's numbers remain a mystery.

Interesting numbers, and I bet the TG16 is just over a quarter of those sales because in my heart of hearts I want to believe it's outselling the other guys but this may not be realistic.  Won't know until we get some good numbers (hopefully soon)  But we can expect after the initial "Explosion" that VC sales will slow at some point as well.  Further adding to the reason not to translate

OD

[Black Tiger]

But once again, look at how well normal TG16 games are doing on the VC to begin with. I don't see why these same people wouldn't download Japanese games, especially if they're translated. I think one of the reasons why TG16 has done so well on the VC is because people haven't got to experience the TG16 and the VC is a great way of being introduced to it.

Interesting point and you're going to make me contradict something I said earlier and was too lazy to edit   I think the reason the normal TG16 games are doing so well is because it's relatively "new" to mainstream and new gamers (I think the NES, SNES and Genny VC sales mainly fall into the nostalgia category because of their previously installed fan-base).  That being said, I don't think they would be interested in a newly translated game, but would rather be perfectly content with the library as it is, not to mention the other VC offerings.

The big appeal with translated games is that we know about them, we can see their potential, and we want to play said game ourselves .  Joe Smith has no clue, and probably doesn't care.  Joe Smith is the target audience for the Wii.  See the problem?  

OD

Joe Smith doesn't care about translated titles and why should he/she? What matters is that more good games get released. The translation part is just a formality, like the emulation. If Hudson brings out only the better TG-16 games and follows them wiith above average PC Engine games, it'd probably be a low cost/risk profitable venture for them.

So far Joe Smith seems pretty happy with the way the TG-16 VC releases have been going so far. If Hudson continues to bring out quality titles for roughly the same price as NES VC games, then the target audience will continue to make Hudson money.

To answer Seldane's post I don't know that at all.  Just a guess.

I think that your logic is flawed OD.  To Joe Smith, everything on the TG-16 (and PCE) is unknown.  Most people out there have heard of Bonk and Bomberman, but most likely because these franchises extend beyond the Turbo.  They wouldn't know if a translated game was originally released in the US or not anyway.

Exactly, so what would motivate Joe Smith to want to download a translated game instead of the already available titles (of which there are already quite a few)?  I mean for us, the real appeal of translating a game is either because we've exhausted the library as it is and want something more, or there is a particular game that us as fans really want to play.  This doesn't apply to Joe Smith. 

If Jane Smith was only going to buy 5 or 6 VC titles ever, then the VC would already be a failure. Just as regular console games and movies and TV shows are being produced, it only makes sense to bring out more VC games. Since there's a small limited number of TG-16 games in general, let alone above average/universal games, bring over imports makes more sense than any of the other North American VC formats.


I honestly don't think it costs very much at all to put together a VC game, translated or otherwise. Even if it did cost as much as $100,000, thats basically free in this age of $20 million games with $20 million ad campaigns. Plus Hudson doesn't need to worry about manufacturing or distribution headaches or even advertising. They just sit back and rake in the dough. Their only concern is nerds complainly about the quality of the emulation on their forums. 

[Keranu]

So when does Joe's cousin John Smith get into this?

[Odonadon]

Joe Smith doesn't care about translated titles and why should he/she? What matters is that more good games get released. The translation part is just a formality, like the emulation. If Hudson brings out only the better TG-16 games and follows them wiith above average PC Engine games, it'd probably be a low cost/risk profitable venture for them.

I think we are arguing the same point   The reason it would be pointless to bring translations out is precisely because Joe doesn't care   A quote from my wife's 31 year old boss who wants to pick up a Wii himself: "What's a Bomberman?"

So far Joe Smith seems pretty happy with the way the TG-16 VC releases have been going so far. If Hudson continues to bring out quality titles for roughly the same price as NES VC games, then the target audience will continue to make Hudson money.

If it ain't broke, don't try and fix it.  Again, the only people that I am aware of who are demanding translated games are us and our kin   The Wii targets the casual gamer, we're all relatively hardcore.

If Jane Smith was only going to buy 5 or 6 VC titles ever, then the VC would already be a failure. Just as regular console games and movies and TV shows are being produced, it only makes sense to bring out more VC games. Since there's a small limited number of TG-16 games in general, let alone above average/universal games, bring over imports makes more sense than any of the other North American VC formats.

Please tell me that people aren't fanboying it up in VC - sticking to one console?  When the TG16 library runs out, people will move to one of the other consoles.  If that was the end of all VC games as we know it, then yes importing and translating makes good sense. 

What indication do you have that the average Wii owner will buy more than 5 or 6 VC titles?  I'm a huge fan, and I will probably only buy a handful myself.  My dad won't buy a single one, neither will my mother or her boyfriend.  I know some people who *might* pick up one or two.  The rest are you guys   Why would it be a failure at only 5 or 6 titles?  Seems like a lot to me.  I think it makes more sense to end it when the library is done and move on to something else like this "other" downloadble content we are hearing about.  Who knows, maybe we can expect PSX VC games in a few years .  Seems like everyone is worried about what is going to happen when Hudson runs out of games to VC-ize   I have a feeling Hudson will stretch it out for 3 or 4 years down the road, maybe the full life of the Wii.

I honestly don't think it costs very much at all to put together a VC game, translated or otherwise. Even if it did cost as much as $100,000, thats basically free in this age of $20 million games with $20 million ad campaigns. Plus Hudson doesn't need to worry about manufacturing or distribution headaches or even advertising. They just sit back and rake in the dough. Their only concern is nerds complainly about the quality of the emulation on their forums. 

Don't be too sure about that, why the week delay for Vigilante?  Why the delay for Dungeon Explorer?  Military Madness not 100%?  Problems?  What?  No such thing, just throw it on the VC and hope it works and people buy it   I think there is a lot more involved than you realize

The great thing with the older games out is that they have, or at least their series has, already been advertised before, many times, in fact recently in some cases (Bonk, Bomberman).  I would really love to see some demographics, but I'm willing to bet that Joe Smith Jr. (aka young kids) is not interested in the VC games   I wouldn't be if I was new to gaming today.  This means the people who are shelling out for VC games have likely seen the advertisements already. 

What are you going to do for a translated game?  Just throw it on and hope people download it?  Gotta do some homework even before the translation process even begins (focus groups, licensing concerns if any, etc.)  Do you think Working Designs translated Parasol Stars or Cadash in a day?    Maybe a week or two, but that was their business. 

Bottom line is a translation only adds cost to what's already being done today for considerably cheaper and will only happen as a last resort kind of thing.  It will only be successful if it is launched at an appropriate time as well.

OD

[Necromancer]

I think we are arguing the same point   The reason it would be pointless to bring translations out is precisely because Joe doesn't care   A quote from my wife's 31 year old boss who wants to pick up a Wii himself: "What's a Bomberman?"

If this were the case, then Joe Smith wouldn't download much of anything for V.C.  My point (and I think B_T's point too) is that it doesn't matter to Joe or Jane if the game was translated today or 20 years ago (almost the entire TG-16 library was translated at some point).  Most of the V.C. releases are unknowns to anyone not already a TG-16 fan, but they seem to be selling well (I don't have any sales figures to back this up - just going by internet scuttlebutt).  The Smith family doesn't give a tin shit about anything but the quality of the gameplay.

Bottom line is a translation only adds cost to what's already being done today for considerably cheaper and will only happen as a last resort kind of thing.  It will only be successful if it is launched at an appropriate time as well.

OD

Exactly my point.  Hudson has been releasing roughly one game per week.  At this rate, they will run out of domestic titles after about eighteen months.  The Gamecube had a five year life span, and I suspect that Nintendo will keep the Wii around about that long too (the industry learned a valuable lesson from Sega regarding short hardware life spans).  The only way that they could stretch 'em out for the life of the console would be to release only one per month, and I think that such slow releases would kill sales.  People would lose interest having to wait months for a game worth buying (by their personal tastes).  Unless Hudson is going to abandon the V.C., at some point they will need to translate some games. 

I think they are selling well to people who are new to the system, where did I say it was due to established fans? 

Uh, isn't that what this meant?   

Again I don't know of any stats to support this, but I'll bet a good 85% or so of VC games are sold people who at one point had played the game, loved the game, always wanted to play the game, heard it was good, whatever.

That sounds like established fans to me, but not necessarily hard core fans.

Of course, my crystal ball is cracked and sometimes I read it wrong.  The Smiths of the world could grow tired of V.C., quit downloading games, and watch V.C. die a quiet death.

So when does Joe's cousin John Smith get into this?

Never - John is a snerd and hates everything from the 'fake' 16 bit Turbo.

[Keranu]

So when does Joe's cousin John Smith get into this?

Never - John is a snerd and hates everything from the 'fake' 16 bit Turbo.

Oh darn!

[Odonadon]

If this were the case, then Joe Smith wouldn't download much of anything for V.C.  My point (and I think B_T's point too) is that it doesn't matter to Joe or Jane if the game was translated today or 20 years ago (almost the entire TG-16 library was translated at some point).  Most of the V.C. releases are unknowns to anyone not already a TG-16 fan, but they seem to be selling well (I don't have any sales figures to back this up - just going by internet scuttlebutt).  The Smith family doesn't give a tin shit about anything but the quality of the gameplay.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one   I don't think Joe Smith is downloading much of anything for VC.  If you are going to release a new game for an old console, you are going to have a tough time selling it, initially.  The benefit the 20 year old games have is what I have said many times: the video game community knows who Bonk and Bomberman are BECAUSE of what happened 20 years ago.  If the franchises weren't successful back in the day, they wouldn't be around today.  They don't know a Gunhed or an Aoi Blink   Doreamon was changed in Cratermaze for probably this reason

Exactly my point.  Hudson has been releasing roughly one game per week.  At this rate, they will run out of domestic titles after about eighteen months.  The Gamecube had a five year life span, and I suspect that Nintendo will keep the Wii around about that long too (the industry learned a valuable lesson from Sega regarding short hardware life spans).  The only way that they could stretch 'em out for the life of the console would be to release only one per month, and I think that such slow releases would kill sales.  People would lose interest having to wait months for a game worth buying (by their personal tastes).  Unless Hudson is going to abandon the V.C., at some point they will need to translate some games. 

Right, but just because for the past few months they have been releasing one at one per week does not mean that will continue.  We had to wait 2 weeks for Vigilante.  Next will be 3, etc.  They'd be silly to release too many games before the Wii is really established to it's potential (another year or so).  Having 500 games to choose from now will scare people away from the VC, and just gives them too many choices   I agree with your last sentences, but I think it will likely be abandoned.

Again I don't know of any stats to support this, but I'll bet a good 85% or so of VC games are sold people who at one point had played the game, loved the game, always wanted to play the game, heard it was good, whatever.

That sounds like established fans to me, but not necessarily hard core fans.

Uhhh... well, I would call someone who has played the game and enjoys it a fan.  Someone who falls into the "always wanted to play the game, heard it was good, whatever" category is, obviously, not an established fan.

OD

[Necromancer]

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one   I don't think Joe Smith is downloading much of anything for VC.  If you are going to release a new game for an old console, you are going to have a tough time selling it, initially.  The benefit the 20 year old games have is what I have said many times: the video game community knows who Bonk and Bomberman are BECAUSE of what happened 20 years ago.  If the franchises weren't successful back in the day, they wouldn't be around today.  They don't know a Gunhed or an Aoi Blink   Doreamon was changed in Cratermaze for probably this reason

I understand what you're saying Odonadon, but many of the games already released for V.C. were unknown outside of the TG-16 community.  I don't think many non-turbo people had heard of Vigilante, Victory Run, etc., yet they've apparently sold well - or maybe not.  People could be sticking to what they know, and the bulk of V.C. sales could be under R-Type, Bonk, Bomberman, etc.  Hard to tell without sales figures, but any way you slice it I think that it will be interesting to see where the V.C. is at in a year or so.

Back to V.C. sales per Wii:  Nintendo surely wishes that they could sell 5 or 6 downloads per console.  The same article on 1up.com that said that 1.5 million games had been downloaded also said that 1.4 million consoles had been connected online (out of 4 million units sold).  They have a long way to go, but supposedly they have sold gobs of Wii points that haven't been used.  Just as sweet of deal as most gift cards - some companies have reported as many as 1 in 3 never being used.  Woo-hoo, free money!   

[Black Tiger]

95% of TG-16 games and about 100% of VC TG-16 games are already translated from japanese. I don't see how more great games from japan would deter anyone from buying them, regardless of whether or not Jane Blo knows they're translated or not.

[Odonadon]

I understand what you're saying Odonadon, but many of the games already released for V.C. were unknown outside of the TG-16 community.  I don't think many non-turbo people had heard of Vigilante, Victory Run, etc., yet they've apparently sold well - or maybe not.  People could be sticking to what they know, and the bulk of V.C. sales could be under R-Type, Bonk, Bomberman, etc.  Hard to tell without sales figures, but any way you slice it I think that it will be interesting to see where the V.C. is at in a year or so.

We're going to have a hard time settling this either way without sales figures, but I will bet you the majority of games sold on the VC are games that are known and are sticking to what they know.  This has been my point all along.  An unknown game won't sell as well, whether it has been recently translated or not.  At least some exposure to our generation 15/20 years ago helps out a little.  I mean, the only really unknown games that came out were Victory Run, Motor Roader, Soldier Blade and maybe Alien Crush.  The others have made appearances on multiple consoles, or their series has, sometimes under different names.  Military Madness is Nectaris/Advance Wars, etc. Dungeon Explorer is basically gauntlet, tell that to a gauntlet fan and he may pick it up.

Back to V.C. sales per Wii:  Nintendo surely wishes that they could sell 5 or 6 downloads per console.  The same article on 1up.com that said that 1.5 million games had been downloaded also said that 1.4 million consoles had been connected online (out of 4 million units sold).  They have a long way to go, but supposedly they have sold gobs of Wii points that haven't been used.  Just as sweet of deal as most gift cards - some companies have reported as many as 1 in 3 never being used.  Woo-hoo, free money!   

I'll bet Nintendo wishes they could sell more than 5 or 6 per console   That brings up another point, not everyone is online.   And for those who are, not everyone will connect their Wii to the internet.  And, like you said, not everyone will use their Wii points   Further limiting exposure to the VC.

All signs seem to point to "Why the heck would they do a translation?"

95% of TG-16 games and about 100% of VC TG-16 games are already translated from japanese. I don't see how more great games from japan would deter anyone from buying them, regardless of whether or not Jane Blo knows they're translated or not.

No that's not my point.  My point is a newly translated game is effectively a new game and effectively unheard of - good luck trying to sell a new game on the VC.

OD