Happy Birthday PC Engine!

[Joe Redifer]

That was Dynamite Headdy.

[Kitsunexus]

Thank you! I just looked it up, I'm going to have to find this game, I didn't know it was made by Treasure, I assumed it was just another "licensable character" game made by Probe or some sort.


BTW, do you guys think Hudson doing anything special for the PCE's B-Day, something involving the Wii perhaps?

[ccovell]

I'll have to agree with Joe Redifer here, in that technically the Genesis/MD FM chip is superior, in that the waveforms that can be generated regularly are more complex than the PCE.  Thus the complexity scale goes something like this:

LCD Games < Sega Master System < NES < PCE < Genesis < SNES.

Of course the less talent a musician has, the more basic the music will sound.  Bad SNES music sounds like the most awkward of MIDI songs; bad Genesis music sounds like croaking frogs; bad PCE music sounds like beeping NES music; bad NES music sounds like a game from 1979; bad SMS music sounds like beeping digital watches, etc.

Yeah, one thing the PCE is definitely lacking is bass.  I think the waveforms just can't be cycled low enough to maintain fidelity and a good bass sound.  The Genesis has plenty of FM controls, so some really low, complex bass-heavy sine waves can be generated.

That said, I'd rather listen to the music from my favourite PCE games, like most of us, but we must admit it has to do with our memories from the game, right?  :-)

p.s. Arcade music made a similar progression, going from analogue sound generators, to simple PSG, to WSG (PCE-like), then to FM and PCM samples.

[Kitsunexus]

Part of the bass thing I think is that PCE can't do sine waves, and FM EXCELS at doing sine waves. And as any DNB/Hip-Hop head will tell you, SINE=BASS.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

EDIT: Sorry ccovell, didn't see that part in your post.

[ParanoiaDragon]

Well, I'm correcting you, as I'm a DnB/Hip Hop head, & I've heard nothing of the sort.  But, then again, believe it or not, I don't pay much attention to those things, I just enjoy listening to & making music, simply.

[Joe Redifer]

Poor SMS... it only has the ability to sound better than LCD games and my watch when I press a button.    It is true that the NES sounds better than the SMS, but there are many SMS tunes that I'd rather listen to (tons of great NES ones as well, obviously).  I am not a big fan of the way the FM expansion pack for the SMS sounds.  It has the capability of being complex, but it never has been.  Instead we get super-quiet tunes with really loud drum tracks.  And it never has all 9 channels going at once.

[Kitsunexus]

Poor SMS... it only has the ability to sound better than LCD games and my watch when I press a button.    It is true that the NES sounds better than the SMS, but there are many SMS tunes that I'd rather listen to (tons of great NES ones as well, obviously).  I am not a big fan of the way the FM expansion pack for the SMS sounds.  It has the capability of being complex, but it never has been.  Instead we get super-quiet tunes with really loud drum tracks.  And it never has all 9 channels going at once.

There was an expansion pack? I thought the FM for SMS was only in Japan, where SMS consoles also had an YM2612 inside (that was removied for the U.S. release for some odd reason). I didn't know there was an expansion pack though, that's hella cool! ^.^

Maybe the SMS processor is so shit it can't use all 9 voices?

[nat]

Here's the game list:
0:00 - Gauntlet IV - 4 songs
1:50 - Mega Turrican - 2 songs
3:00 - Midnight Resistance - 1 song
3:40 - Global Gladiators - 1 "song"
4:08 - Shinobi III - 1 song
4:30 - Thunder Force IV/Lightening Force - 3 songs
5:57 - Streets of Rage 1 - 2 songs - I know you said you've heard this, but it's here to demonstrate one thing that the PC Engine definitely cannot do... BASS.  Absolutely requires some great full range speakers/headphones that are capable of excellent bass.
7:08 - Zero Wing - 1 song
7:33 - Panorama Cotton - 1 song
8:16 - Castlevania Bloodlines - 1 song

Good examples.  I've been "schooled". I especially like Mega Turrican and Thunder Force IV. The clip from Global Gladiators is possibly, however, the most obnoxious 28 seconds of audio I've ever listened to. The Shinobi III clip actually didn't impress me too much.

So the Genesis has got some technical shit on the Turbo... Too bad it didn't get put to good use more often. 

I'll still take a little Dungeon Explorer, Air Zonk or even Gradius any day.

[Joe Redifer]

When all is said and done, it simply comes down to what you enjoy listening to more.  The Genesis could have real bands that teleport into your living room and play full high definition audio from all around you with real instruments, but if the music isn't as good, you're gonna enjoy listening to the Turbo play Legendary Axe 2 recorded on a cassette tape with no noise reduction much more!

Shinobi 3 is hard to judge.  I put that one on there for the "clang" type of percussion.  The rest of it is rather average.  But some people are completely enamored with the soundtrack.  I agree about Global Gladiators, that's why I put it on there.    Makes you want to beat up Tommy Tallarico... actually who doesn't want to do that already?

[Bonknuts]

Part of the bass thing I think is that PCE can't do sine waves, and FM EXCELS at doing sine waves. And as any DNB/Hip-Hop head will tell you, SINE=BASS.

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

EDIT: Sorry ccovell, didn't see that part in your post.

 Yeah, the PCE can do sine waves. The PCE isn't PSG (pulse sound generation), it's PCM based. Each channel of audio holds a 32 sample voice. I've done a sine wave at 40hz and the bass is low, but the problem is that the sample resolution for each channel is only 5bits so it's not as smooth as FM at lower frequencies.

 I'm not too sure on the Genesis, but I believe the PCE is better at playing digitized effects. I can easily play a 5bit res sample in the range of 10hz-100kHz with DDA mode. Your only limited to the size of the stored sample the processing power to drive it.

 Anyway, I guess this is getting off-topic.

[Joe Redifer]

Off topic kicks ass.  Is there any way you can post an MP3 with some great PCE voice samples, you know, to celebrate its birthday?  Even ones that you record yourself are fine.  I'd be happy to host it if you don't have a server, just e-mail me the MP3.

[Bonknuts]

 Will do    

 ( still need to get you that interlaced demo on CD )

[Digi.k]

ok I'll admit the pc engine soundchip is no where near as powerful as the megadrives but that don't mean the pce's sound is slacking in that department!

These are recorded from the real things!!! (and in stereo)!




Naxat Soft's version of Capcom's 1943 KAI
Open new1943kaifinal.mp3

Hudson Soft's Final Soldier, Super Star Soldier and Soldier Blade
Open soldierfiinal.mp3

Namco's Dragon Saber
Open dragonsaberfinal.mp3

Taito's Hana Tahka Daka!?
Open longnosefinal.mp3

I'll try and get a few more game bgm's up if I can try and remember my passwords to the other file anchor accounts >.>

[Kitsunexus]

Nice clips, Digi.k. ^_^

Can we start talking about the consoles/computers with AWESOME soundchips now? IE:

Apple IIGS - Yeah it's a computer. A COMPUTER WITH A BULIT-IN ENSONIQ MIRAGE!! 16 channels, mono channels though, so you're limited to 8 voices in normal mode, demosceners got around this however.

Amiga (any model) - The Paula chip = GLORIOUS PCM! Again 8 channels, but those demosceners can get more from software trickery. This system gets enough glory so I won't whore it too much. Also it had the same sound chip as the CD32 and the CDTV, those had no enhancements so I'm not mentioning them.

SNES - The SPC700 was the first console to feature full 44.1khz PCM, however it must rely on bankswitching to load BIG samples (as confirmed by Yuzo Koshiro in this interview, although he calls it "sample reloading" ) and uses some  WEAK-ASS (almost non-existant) filters (It uses a rather shitty 8-step FIR, at LEAST it has an ADSR envelope, otherwise it'd sound MUY shit.)  Also it has 8 channels, which I don't ever recall being hacked to make more. (However the Super Pitfall guy asked for some special audio software to compose dynamic music, he might have succeeded in getting some sound channel hacks, I'm not sure though.)

Atari Jaguar - Yeah it was a shit console. But Jerry gets special mention, being the best part of that console. "Jerry" was an AMAZING DSP cooked up by IBM that would still pass for a consumer souncard today, but back then it was AMAZING. Just like the N64, sound channels were limited ONLY by software. However, in games like DOOM, this meant no music (Yak was A GOD to get music out of Tempest 2000). The chip's main musical duties were to playback Amiga MOD files, but being a DSP it could do ANYTHING from sample playback to Genesis-esque FM to even wavetable synthesis like a motherf*cking WALDORF Q+! One wonders if it could do subtractive VA, and it probably could. No one really took advantage of this however.

[Keranu]

ok I'll admit the pc engine soundchip is no where near as powerful as the megadrives but that don't mean the pce's sound is slacking in that department!

As far as I know, neither one is really more technically powerful than the other, it just depends on your taste. Though that really doesn't make a difference either since I find NES to sound better than say SNES .