Author Topic: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r  (Read 2370 times)

Joe Redifer

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2007, 01:26:19 PM »
Ooo!  I forgot to add that the Neo Geo is definitely better at 2D than the 3DO is.  Good Gawd.

SNKNostalgia

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2007, 02:02:47 PM »
Cool then.

The Neo Geo did do some interesting new things in its later life. Games like Rage of the Dragons used a special PCM compression chip to get CD like audio but with somewhat FM scratchy radio quality and KOF 99 using speed enhancement in the chipset. One of the main reasons why they probably didn't go all the way so to speak was due to the more cost of the carts and SNK going bankrupt at the time. Which had to kill any future developement until it was reopened. It is bad enough that when Playmore came to be, all the games were $325 on average. Even Kof 2000 from NCSX was $265. It is true that the Neo Geo might have been able to do even more different things like special compressions or use of mini processors much like a Super FX chip. I wish that SNK made more arcade action/adventure type games instead of almost nothing but fighters. Still, I like them so it is cool with me. Atleast we got Metal Slug, Top Hunter, Sengouku 2, Shocktroopers, 3 really good space shooters and a few other types of games.

As for the Saturn RAM cart slot, not sure if it can or can't do some processing tricks. From what info is out there, it
is only cabable of doing 2D graphics memory and could not do anything with processing or the polygons. It was much like the serial port in the back of the PS1 system, but a little bit better since it could atleast do 2D graphics combined with its own 2D. Of course it was capable of doing communication with netlink, back-up ram, import carts and gameshark. It couldn't find a way around CD-R's other than the internal mod-chip. I think that may be why Sega limited the cart ports capabilites maybe, same reason why the PS1 allowed less possibilities with the serial port.

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One thing of concern, though certainly not something worth arguing over, but why do people refer to the Neo Geo as a "dual processor" system and not the Genesis?  Both had a 68000.  Both had a Z-80 running the sound. What gives?

Genesis is known to have a Z-80 for sound in the first model and then it was thought to be gone by the time the Genesis 2 came out. So that might have something to do with it not being noticed. What sucks is you can't use the power convertor to play master system games on the Genesis 2 or 3. The Power Convertor probably was thought to be the only reason the Z-80 is in there period.

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I haven't seen Garou of the Wolves or whatever.  I have the Dreamcast version and I hate it, but I imagine the NG version is different since the Dreamcast version uses polygons in the background.

Yeah the DC version of Garou sucks ass. It has latent sound , 3D backgrounds and doesn't run all to great. The PS2 port is much better from what I have heard. The Neo Geo version of the game is awesome, but I personally am not the biggest fan of the game compared to the other fighters they made. Atleast, it was another series side story wise I guess. It does have some good music though.

Which reminds me, SNK did do some damn good music on their games. Especially when you here them on CD format.

Also by Maramalade, if you mean the game Matrimelee. Stay far away from it. It is one of the games that Playmore made that is considered not so great. I use to own it and I play Neo Geo fighters like crazy. This is actually a part of the Power instinct series. This game had some of the worst BG, scratchy obnoxious music (high pitch aliens singing in Japanese for example) and the characters suck. It is also hard as shit when you get to the boss. You have to use some cheap technique in order to even win, there is no straight up fighting her.

Joe Redifer

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2007, 03:19:31 PM »
I must ask:
Which would you consider to be the top 5 fighters for the Neo Geo?  I'd probably be interested in picking up at least two of them.  I'm not fond of the layered Fatal Fury games and I already have KoF 95-97 on the Saturn, but I think that's my only caveat.  I looked at the Garou game on Youtube and the animation looked really good.

Also from what I heard, the music in Matrimelee sounds pretty cool when the console was set to Japanese.  I've read that Rage of Dragons also sounded cool..  I think it was Metal Slug 3 or 4 that sounded pretty good as well, at least in the first stage.  Basically what the Neo is doing is playing back one huge PCM sample of real recorded music.  Unfortunately it is mono when they do this, otherwise the Neo would have to play back two huge PCM samples at the same time, one for left and the other for right.  Z80 might have said "Enough!".  As for sounding like FM-radio, that is about right.  I'm not sure exactly what the Neo Geo's PCM specs are, but I imagine it is 8-bit sampling with a max rate of either 24,000Hz or 32,000Hz, but I am betting it is probably 24,000.

The Genesis 2 did have a Z80.  You can run Sega Master System games on it, but you need to either disassemble the normal Power Base Converter to get it to fit or buy a special one from Europe which is made to fit the model 2.  Model 3 uses some sort of combo 68k/z80 chip.  Apparently it could be made to run SMS games but it is missing one set of instructions for that to be enabled.  But the Z-80 does handle sound in many if not most games on the system, so it must be there.

As for the Saturn cart slot, I have no idea what it's full capabilities were.  I just know that when the Saturn was being designed, there was going to be a cart only version and a cart + CD version.  I figured the cart slot was left over from that design.  Not sure about its bandwidth capabilities.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 03:22:47 PM by Joe Redifer »

Keranu

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2007, 04:53:45 PM »
It's about time this debate has cooled over 8) .

I must ask:
Which would you consider to be the top 5 fighters for the Neo Geo?  I'd probably be interested in picking up at least two of them.  I'm not fond of the layered Fatal Fury games and I already have KoF 95-97 on the Saturn, but I think that's my only caveat.  I looked at the Garou game on Youtube and the animation looked really good.
My top five favorite fighters for the Neo Geo would probably be:

KoF'98 - Best fighting game of all time, but I say this from a very technical standpoint.

KoF'97 - Basically like '98, except you get an awesome story in single player mode. I prefer '98 over this however for the extra characters and a few better special move adjustments.

Last Blade 2 - Awesome, awesome game. Though the first one had cooler backgrounds and better music, I prefer this game for the slightly better gameplay.

Garou: Mark of the Wolves - Though I find it a little overrated, it's still a lovely game. The Just Defense system is fun, but I prefer KoF-style mechanics and combos.

FATAL FURY - I enjoy this purely for cheese reasons, so you might want to avoid this. It does have an interesting two player option where both players co-operate to defeat the computer.

Joe, I've also compiled a list of fighting games that I think you would like for Neo Geo:

Art of Fighting 3 - I've never been too fond of the stiff feeling controls of AoF, but this game improves that a bit and has very nice vibrant graphics. Check out the first two for cooler 70's style storylines though.

Kabuki Klash - Really bright fighting game starring the Tengai Makyou / Far East of Eden characters. Uses weapons and shit, pretty neat.

Kizuna Encounter - This is a awesome tag team fighting game, old-school style too. There is a really unique prequel to this game, but I never know the name! It stars the main character with the boomerang and you can jump up on platforms and shit during the levels, it was cool.

Last Blade - Like a more serious Samurai Shodown game with smoother gameplay and fantastic artwork.

Ninja Masters - Fun, underdiscussed ninja fighting game with interesting gameplay if I recall.

Real Bought Fatal Fury series - A more hyper Fatal Fury game with lots of characters and cool combos. I'm pretty sure it still has the two planes though.

Waku Waku 7 - I think you would really like this game a lot and it's the whole reason why I made this list. Huge sprites, ultra colorful graphics, crazy humor, and fun simple gameplay. Nice game and it has a Saturn port too!
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

Joe Redifer

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2007, 05:56:07 PM »
The Saturn port of Waku Waku 7 requires the 4MB RAM cart.  Any word on how it compares to the original?  This isn't SNK which is why they used the 4MB cart instead of the 1MB I take it.

I'm pretty sure all proper Fatal Fury games have the two layers.

I am interested in Last Blade because people seem to like it so much.  But I get a bit scared when you say "a more serious Samurai Shodown".  My experience with Samurai Shodown is extremely limited, and the first time I played it was on the 3DO where is was really choppy and slow.  It seemed to take itself overly serious since it barely had any music (just Japanese sounding instruments here and there, etc).  It also seemed quite hard.

The two fighting games I have for the Neo Geo now are Fatal Fury 2 which I find very hard to control and SvC Chaos which controls nicely, but has that dickwad Geonutz who keeps cheating with his "Cocoa diska" move.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2007, 05:57:52 PM by Joe Redifer »

Keranu

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2007, 07:27:11 PM »
The Saturn port of Waku Waku 7 requires the 4MB RAM cart.  Any word on how it compares to the original?  This isn't SNK which is why they used the 4MB cart instead of the 1MB I take it.
I haven't played the Saturn port, I just seem to hear ab00t it often.

Quote from: Joe
I am interested in Last Blade because people seem to like it so much.  But I get a bit scared when you say "a more serious Samurai Shodown".  My experience with Samurai Shodown is extremely limited, and the first time I played it was on the 3DO where is was really choppy and slow.  It seemed to take itself overly serious since it barely had any music (just Japanese sounding instruments here and there, etc).  It also seemed quite hard.
I never really got into the Samurai Shodown series and when I say Last Blade is more serious, I mean it doesn't have as many wild moves or characters and has deeper gameplay. It's similar that they both feature a similar Japanese sword fighting theme and have the neat zoom effect, but gameplay wise they're pretty different. I think you'll be pleased with Last Blade as it features a really nice soundtrack that fits the game's atmosphere very well.

Quote from: Joe
The two fighting games I have for the Neo Geo now are Fatal Fury 2 which I find very hard to control and SvC Chaos which controls nicely, but has that dickwad Geonutz who keeps cheating with his "Cocoa diska" move.
Fatal Fury 2 is a fun old skool fighter, but does have stiff controls. Fatal Fury 3 has better controls as well as sharp graphics and a awesome 80's opening, but I found the new characters to be stupid and the gameplay still could've improved. FF3 reminds me of AoF3 a lot.

I don't often play fighting games on one player, but SNK is notorius for having really cheap bosses in their fighting games, especially that dick in KoF'2001. I'd use a very offensive character (Kyo would be good) and roll past his Cocoa diskas and then when close enough to him, combo the crap out of him.
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

SNKNostalgia

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2007, 12:37:13 AM »
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I don't often play fighting games on one player, but SNK is notorius for having really cheap bosses in their fighting games, especially that dick in KoF'2001. I'd use a very offensive character (Kyo would be good) and roll past his Cocoa diskas and then when close enough to him, combo the crap out of him.

Eiiiish KOF 2001 was the only KOF to actually make my stomache turn. It was so incompleted and had bland colors. It was the first Playmore games made by a company in Korea called Eolith. The later ones where inmprovements though, way better. For the cheap bosses, this is the guidline: games made in 1994-95 and all Playmore fighters period. There are a few games that have cheap bosses from the other years here and there.

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I am interested in Last Blade because people seem to like it so much.  But I get a bit scared when you say "a more serious Samurai Shodown".  My experience with Samurai Shodown is extremely limited, and the first time I played it was on the 3DO where is was really choppy and slow.  It seemed to take itself overly serious since it barely had any music (just Japanese sounding instruments here and there, etc).  It also seemed quite hard.

Yeah, the Neo Geo version is way better than that version. Even the Genesis one seems better than it was on 3DO. Samurai Shodown 2 for the Neo Geo is a real good fighter and dirt cheap at like $20. It has a huge character line up, best endings and good BG with a lot of them. It is the older style Samsho which the characters arn't real big like SS3 and SS4. SS3 and SS4 are different, in ways of SS3 having better color plus BG and more challenge. SS4 has more characters which are fun, a combo system and decent endings. SS2 up to SS4 had much more music, so it is balance with those japanese drums and chants stages.

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I must ask:
Which would you consider to be the top 5 fighters for the Neo Geo?  I'd probably be interested in picking up at least two of them.  I'm not fond of the layered Fatal Fury games and I already have KoF 95-97 on the Saturn, but I think that's my only caveat.  I looked at the Garou game on Youtube and the animation looked really good.

Real Bout Fatal Fury Special - I know it has the line system but it doesn't do it all stiff like FF 1 and 2/Special did it like. Also, it had a solid combo system and badass moves and supers. Yamazaki is real fun to play on this one since he can do 3 of his snake arm hit in one long charge. That and his SDM move is brutal as hell. I like FF 3 just as much since it is rather a little outdated in gameplay compared to this one, I list this. ** If you really, really don't like the 2 line system you can turn it off on Real Bout 2, so you might like that better.**

The King of Fighters 98 - on the actual cart system it is pretty much my favorite version. I like 96 and 97 the same, but I picked this one since it offers more. I have played the Saturn version of 97 and this is much more solid on the Neo Geo. KOF 96 was almost as perfect as the Neo Geo version minus the voice and sound effects with the Saturn. I couldn't stand the Dreamcast port of 98.

Last Blade 2 - Same reason Kerenu likes it. I played LB 1 in the arcades when it came out and couldn't walk away from the machine I was so amazed. It is a fast paced fighter with the best weapon system fighting mechanics I have ever played. It blows SS away in terms of fighting system. The ports for all systems never did it justice.

Art of Fighting 3 - It changed up the AOF series completely. It is made by the same team that did Mark of The Wolves which is also the same that did the Last Blade series. It has a really good combo system that is very unique, some of the best frame movement of characters I have seen, damn good BG on a few stages and the music was really cool with its jazzy sound. Completely different game from the other AOF games. This is one of the most different SNK games I have ever seen out of the fighters.

Samurai Shodown 2 - I personally like this game since they put shit tons of effort in it and it was fun to play. It is hard for me to pick a favorite Samshow game. I guess I like this one the most since it improved on what SS1 did a by adding many more characters,with BG stages and endings on it that are really nice. It had an overall kick ass feel and enviroment in it. The challenge is just right, as isn't all too hard if you get better at it.

Kerenu pretty much listed the rest of some good Neo Geo fighters. Yes I will admit it, I played Fatal Fury 1 before SF2 in the arcades so that may have something to do why I still love the hell out of it. It may be stiff and outdated in fighting, atleast not as bad as SF1 eeewww. I liked how they did the game with the light changes when outside, 2 on 1 against the computer and badass voice effects especially when doing moves.

As for some great non-fighters...

Metal Slug 3 - This is the one with the most put into it. You have different routes, more fun tidbits, some new weapons and vehicles and really good music. Heavy metal on the desert stage when riding the camel gets you going.

Shocktroopers 1 - The graphics may not be as great as the Metal Slugs, but it is fun as hell and the music will get you hyped. It is an overhead shoot-em up like Mercs. You can choose a team of 3 people to play out of 8 in all. The weapons are great and you can also choose different routes. You would have to buy a conversion of the MVS or get the MVS Cab/Phantom Convertor to play the original cart.

Blazing Star - Pretty much my favorite Space shooter on here. More ships to choose, lots of frame usage and good music.

NAM 1975 - Oh yeah, the first Neo Geo game and had classic 80's SNK all over it with voice acting that will crack you up. It plays like Cabal but more improvements. This game almost seems more like an older SNK arcade game instead of Neo Geo which makes it more unique.

Top Hunter - Fun beat-em up, but more of an action platformer with special moves like the fighting games. Really cool game.

Baseball Stars 2 - This game is just a fun classic arcade sports game. It has it good feel to it and is just plain fun to play.

kid_rondeau

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2007, 07:41:47 AM »
Would someone be so kind as to make me a small anchovy pizza on a thin crust? That sounds good about now. Thanks!
« Last Edit: June 09, 2007, 07:06:26 AM by kid_rondeau »

Joe Redifer

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2007, 05:56:13 PM »
Anything for you, kid_rondeau.

Anyway, I am seeing some Samurai Shodown 2's online, but none of them have the number "2" in any form on the box.  Some auctions call it Shin Samurai Spirits.  I don't want to accidentally get the first game.

SNKNostalgia

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2007, 06:32:00 PM »
As long as the cover shows a big face shot of Hoamaru instead of him holding a sword in the water your good to go. Yeah, we did take up a good 2 pages on here.  ](*,)

Necromancer

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2007, 03:13:27 AM »
It was entertaining and educational, so who cares?  Besides, how many threads go over one page and manage to stay on topic?  I'll give ya a hint - somewhere between zero and none.
U.S. Collection: 97% complete    155/159 titles

D-Lite

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2007, 08:32:46 AM »
Back on topic here, the JROK boards aren't compatible with PCE/Turbo by themselves.  This has been known for quite some time and James (JROK) isn't really sure of the problem.  I've tracked it down to some missing components it seems, but I'm not 100% sure of what it is.  Either way, there is no real need to get a JROK over either grahf's or anyone else's S-Video mods.  And since the JROK component board is based on the S-Video board, it doesn't work for the PCE/Turbo either.  Some day I'll probably sit down and figure it out, but that day isn't today....

The RGB mods seem to be a pain in the ass.  If you want to get a good RGB mod, just pull the RGB output off the CXA2075 or CXA1645 chips used in the S-Video mods.  It looks fantastic.
Check my site for Turbo, Neo, NGPC, and superguns!
http://www.multimods.com

SignOfZeta

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2007, 09:24:07 AM »
The Saturn port of Waku Waku 7 requires the 4MB RAM cart.  Any word on how it compares to the original?  This isn't SNK which is why they used the 4MB cart instead of the 1MB I take it.

I currently don't have my Saturn hooked up to test it, but I'm %99.9 sure this is incorrect. The case for Waku Waku 7 just says it needs the "memory cartridge". Games that require the 4MB cart specifically say, "4MB" in the little compatibility blurb on the case. In fact, I'm pretty sure that the 4MB cart wasn't even out yet when WW7 was released. If it was, it was very close, and I distinctly remember Vampire Savior being the 2nd 4MB game.

The Saturn port of WW7 is pretty nice. I actually haven't spent much time with the Geo one, but I kind of wonder if the original has as much slowdown at the final stage. Maybe that slowdown is actually there on purpose (Dural Style) since you are supposed to be fighting kaiju, and they always move slow, right?

Michael Helgeson

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2007, 12:08:22 AM »
Ok,I am going to jump on this for a min.
WW7 for the Saturn is not as good as it is on the Neo. Its close,but there are many issues with it. Still very much worth buying if you don't have a Neo but you have a Saturn.

The SNK ports on Saturn were not emulated. The games were re-programed from the ground up for the Saturn. Most were what I would consider 95-98 percent perfect depending on how nit picky you are. Slowdown on Metal Slug is normal,even the Neo cart has a tad bit of slow down. A couple of graphic bugs from the neo game were fixed in the Saturn one,but the Saturn had a couple of bugs in a couple of areas itself. Nothing major. you prob would not notice unless I pointed it out to you. The audio was not exact on the Saturn,but it was more then good enough. The only bad Neo port on Saturn was Fatal Fury 3. It was rancid due to slow gameplay/bad programming.

Blazing Star couldn't be done on the Saturn. Simply not enough ram. That game actually was one of the first to kick Neo Rage X's ass emu wise because of memory issues if you had a comp with 64 megs or lower. Neo emulation is going good on DC now,but Blazing Star has to pre-cache like a mutha f*cker as it plays because even the DC doesn't have enough ram to load it,even a stage at a time in pre-cache.

The Saturn was also a cart based system. Its called STV you f*ck wits :P. I am totally surprised that went over all your heads,esp Joes as he comes across as a Sega nutt. The ST-V could not have as large a carts memory size wise as the Neo. Either way it could still be impressive. http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=711
Blazing Star coulda been done on the ST-V I feel without issues,because of the cart access.


The thing everyone seems to be missing here is that it took a extremely powerful 32-bit system with at the time very powerful 2d ability to even come close to offering close to perfect ports of Neo-Geo games. Even the DC had issues with Last Blade 2 and Mark of the Wolves. Not massive ones,but you did notice them if you were picky.
To me it was a solid mix of "at the time advanced' future proof hardware,which out-lasted all the other 2d systems released in that time period,the ability to access such large amounts of ram,and great programmers that gave the Neo the chance to bring us some true classics.


BTW,not sure if the correct Neo res was given,but on my SNK spec sheet I have its listed as 320x224. I don't think it matters much. No way in hell could the Genesis touch the Neo Geo,even with the Sega CD add on. Thats not a argument worth doing.

Art of Fighting 3 is very very impressive for the system. To me its a better game then Mark of the Wolves.

Michael Helgeson

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Re: RGB Mod for a PcEngine Duo-r
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2007, 12:12:34 AM »
BTW, I dont remember Mark of the Wolves having 3d backgrounds reworked for DC at all. It was a normal port as far as I can remember. The reworks into 3d were KOF 98 and KOF 99. On those 2 they redid the backgrounds completely in  a 3d engine. I still hate how they named 98 "Dreammatch 99". Really stupid decision.