VC: Why TG-16 and not PCE in Europe?

[Golgo13]

Perhaps you could care to explain how Greece is Racist, and countries like England, Holland and France are not?

In my opinion Greece is a country that is very traditional and has carried on many traditions and ideas much longer than many western european countries have been around.  Are the Japanese racist because they dont consider korean immigrants Japanese? 

[Golgo13]

"Germany's fear of Turks is rooted in Germany's own failures."


What about Greece and the rest of the balkans fear of turks, what failures brought that on?

[Monster Bonce]

I didn't say it is. I said there is that perception. I also said that that was probably a prejudice in itself. In fact, there are a lot of Northern European prejudices about Southern Europe—even within countries, viz. Italy.

Also, are we talking at cross purposes here? I'm not talking about immigrants. I'm talking about their children.

Japan certainly has a reputation for racism, deserved or otherwise. At some points in its history it was one of the most xenophobic cultures on the face of the planet. Consider the Edo period. I have no idea if any of this still plays out today but I do know that there is a xenophobic right wing fringe that exerts political pressure beyond its numbers over issues like war memorials etc. There are also figures like Mishima in recent history.

Edit: And yes, the Japanese have been racist toward Koreans.

[Monster Bonce]

What about Greece and the rest of the balkans fear of turks, what failures brought that on?

Thousands of years of history? What about the French?

Nevertheless, the German situation is distinct.

Good article on Turkey and the EU:
Taking it out on Turkey
The tortured discussion about the Turks joining the EU is a product of crises in the West more than the East.
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CAD8A. htm

[Golgo13]

Be more specific though, the entire population of the balkans and some areas up unto romania and such, all managed to fail?  Im really just curious to hear a western europeans viewpoint on this thats all.

[Monster Bonce]

No, and I know nothing about the situation re Turks in the Balkans. Nor have I claimed to. You're putting words in my mouth talking about the Balkans and failure. My point was about the failures of the modern German state, not any Balkan state or its people. I was offering the German situation as an example of how to not handle immigration.

Germany's problem, however, is rooted in Germany using Turkish guest workers to do things on the cheap while failing to integrate the Turkish population properly into German life. This stuff is well-documented. It has nothing to do with Turkey and everything to do with Germany.

[Golgo13]

No, and I know nothing about the situation re Turks in the Balkans. Nor have I claimed to.

Germany's problem, however, is rooted in Germany using Turkish guest workers to do things on the cheap while failing to integrate the Turkish population properly into German life. This stuff is well-documented. It has nothing to do with Turkey and everything to do with Germany.

I think its more a failure of understanding the principals of human nature.  If you have a culture that you love, that belongs to you, you are less likely to give up that culture no matter where you live.  If you have no culture, don't think your culture is worth much, or think that your culture is in fact "Multicultural" than you are going to be more open to the idea of integration.  Turks as a whole never integrated with anyone they came in contact with,  but now western europeans think they will integrate them, regardless of what the history shows.

[FM-77]

So how about that PC Engine, eh? A fine piece of hardware to be sure.

[Golgo13]

Hahaha, yeah I guess you dont want to think about that up there in sweden eh?

[Necromancer]

PS Irishness is not an ethnicity, it's a nationality.

Try looking up a definition for ethnicity.  Ethnicity is a social construct of people who share similar cultural traits (language, dress, religion, etc.) as well as common ancestry.  How does this not apply to being Irish?

The Netherlands are f'n great.  It's easily the best place on earth to stick you finger in some dykes.

[Golgo13]

"The Irish are a European ethnic group who originated in Ireland"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people






"Only place you can get your fingers... some dyke."

[Golgo13]

  How does this not apply to being Irish?


Because most western european socialist types, are concerned about the rights of indigenous peoples in places like tibet, or some other place very far off.  The idea that europeans can be indigenous peoples of europe does not really sit to well with them, because they associate having an ethnic identity with racism (unless your from some non european country). 

As to what I believe, I believe in the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere, not just in tibet or places like that.  I was born in the united states of america, im an American citizen, but where I and Walsh disagree is that I think the only true americans are the native american indians,  I can be a citizen of the united states of america, but never a true american like them because they are indigenous, and I am not. 

In Holland, native dutch children are not taught about their ancestors or where they come from, because they would conflict with the socialist plans, the idea is for them to forget their history so they dont see any cultural differences between them and others.

[Necromancer]

As to what I believe, I believe in the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere, not just in tibet or places like that.  I was born in the united states of america, im an American citizen, but where I and Walsh disagree is that I think the only true americans are the native american indians,  I can be a citizen of the united states of america, but never a true american like them because they are indigenous, and I am not. 

Believe what you wish, but this sounds a little fruitcakey to me.  Native Americans have been here longer, but they didn't climb out of the primordial ooze and land on the good ol' USA - they migrated here from somewhere else.  How many years does it take to qualify as 'indigenous'?  Probably more than the number of licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop.

[Golgo13]

No thats true, they came over the land bridge from asia that used to exist I heard, but they are in fact the original people to settle the area, at least thats what we know at this point.  But the point I was trying to make with that is that I think people should respect locals and traditions, and people should also try not to deny the nature of people and avoid inconvenient facts which do not fit into the fantasy utopia world they idealize.

[Golgo13]

As to what I believe, I believe in the rights of indigenous peoples everywhere, not just in tibet or places like that.  I was born in the united states of america, im an American citizen, but where I and Walsh disagree is that I think the only true americans are the native american indians,  I can be a citizen of the united states of america, but never a true american like them because they are indigenous, and I am not. 

Believe what you wish, but this sounds a little fruitcakey to me. 

Actually when people here in are ranting and raving about the rights of indigenous peoples in tibet or somwhere else they never will go, I find that rather fruitcakey because meanwhile some "Indigenous" dutch school kid (And no im not making this up, I know 2 kids this happened to being here 8 months) is getting robbed at knifepoint by a gang of five or so turks.  They would rather sweep shit like that under the rug and forget about it, mogadishu and tibet are so much more important.