Turbo Duo: too many pack-in games?

[esteban]

YES!!!  As much as the game itself sucks, the music in JJ & Jeff is probably the hippest stuff on the Turbo.
Track 4 in the HES file is downright funky.

I like the music too. But...

Why do so many folks despise JJ & Jeff? It is Wonderboy 1 / Adventure Island (NES) with a few (slight) twists?

Sorry, but as you may already know, it is my duty to defend JJ & Jeff.

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I actually don't want to get into a JJ & Jeff discussion, so let me shift gears and simply say that the "too many pack-ins" theory is  incredibly silly. When the Duo was realeased, the only thing TTi could do was to throw in a bunch of games. It makes sense on so many different levels: it justifies the $300 price tag, it generates interest in everyone (existing TG-16 fans as well as new customers), and, for newcomers, it is a wonderful introduction to the TG-16 library. Sorry, but the Duo would not have had a $200 price tag sans pack-ins. Hardware costs are real (and the associated freight / warehousing costs), while the cost of manufacturing / licensing software is cheap, in relative terms. Simply put, TTi had to include pack-ins in order to justify the console price. I don't know what the actual cost of a Duo was for TTi, but I can tell you that there was a higher profit-to-cost ratio for their software.

Now, at the time, I didn't think the Duo was going to do well (even in a niche market), but I certainly thought that TTi made a valiant effort. You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.

I think TTi should be faulted for some of its lame print advertising campaigns, since they had control over that. Otherwise, they were in no position to compete with Nintendo and Sega, who had a bazillion dollars dedicated to marketing.

TTi should be faulted for some of the games they decided to release (when better options were available), but the Duo pack-in was one of the things they did *RIGHT*. They also threw some coupons in with the Duo. Yes, they were desperate -- but they didn't make any mistakes as far as pack-in / coupons are concerned.

I don't think the Duo would have been significantly more successful if anime and RPG went mainstream sooner. The reason is simple: the playing field would still be unlevel. Nintendo and Sega, swimming in cash, would have been in a much better position to support all the anime-flavored / RPG games they desired. TTi could not have competed with their competition's localization efforts, in relative terms. Sure, TTi could have been benefitted from RPG / anime interest, but it would still have been struggling overall.

Finally, considering Wataru's popularity with North American viewers, it wouldn't have helped make Keith Courage a better pack-in game . For the record, Keith Courage had the potential to be an *awesome* game. Strip away the repetition / monotony and you'd have a kick-ass game. I'm too lazy to find my old posts on the matter, but I speak the Truth.

The only point I have any desire to defend is the one about Keith Courage's potential.

[nat]

You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.

I guess I sound really depressing and pessimistic over these here digital lines.

I actually agree with you-- I didn't think it was half-hearted at all! They really went above and beyond with the whole Duo package and pack-in offerings.

I just remember noting at the time, back in '92 or whenever, that the Turbo market was really slipping away from them. Fewer and fewer stores were carrying TG16 games, and those that did were cutting back their inventory. When I saw the Duo arriving on the scene, I recall thinking to myself that this was their "last hurrah", a final attempt to garner some kind of attention and hold on to at least a tiny piece of the market. I can't think of a better way for them to have gone out. But it was already too late, TTI had lost the battle, the writing was on the wall. I really wanted a Duo at the time, but the price tag was waaaay too high. I only got a TG16 a couple years prior because it was $99.99. I think the price of the Duo was something that hurt them in the end. They would've sold more had it been cheaper. But as you said, the cost of hardware is what it is, I'm not sure there was anything they could really do about that.

[Keranu]

I completely agree with Steve about how TTi wanted to go out with a bang when releasing the Duo. Lots of people blame Johnny Turbo as part of the Duo's fall, but I disagree with that as by the time Johnny Turbo was out, at least as far as I know, the Duo didn't really have any chance left of surviving out here, so the advertisers just decided to have a lot of fun with poking at their competitors and even theirselves.

[nat]

Johnny Turbo didn't have anything to do with it.

I had never even heard of Johnny Turbo until last year, and I was actually an active TG-16 player during the "height" of the system's popularity. If I missed him, I'm sure many others did too.

[kenomac78]

johnny turbo was in the back pages of EGM if you didnt read it fo 2 or 3 monhs in 93 then you missed it. but it was no big deal

really the turbo duo was a victim of bad timing. in 93 knowing the 32 bits were on the way and with people already owning a snes genesis (or TG16!) of ou already but 200 or 300 bucks on something last year why dump 300 bucks on somthing then dump another 300 a year or 2 later?  and those who did probably bought a sega CD anyways.  maybe they could have just re released the CD ROM2 wit the 3.0 card and the games thrown in for $200 it could have sold a few more. but i still remind everyone who neer knew and even thouse who do, that nintendo's poliies were still largely in effect preventing success anywhere else. sega got lucky but signing up 3rd parties not on with nintendo and that was that! maybe the turbo duo should have had 20 pack in games! that would be sweet!!

[esteban]

You can say it was a "last ditch effort", but it wasn't a half-hearted effort, which is the connotation / tone I pick up from nat's comments. IMO, TTi was more like, "Crap, we don't have a chance in a million, but let's go out with a bang." Well, that's what I think they said in preparation for the Duo's launch. After the launch, I don't know what they thought.

I guess I sound really depressing and pessimistic over these here digital lines.

I actually agree with you-- I didn't think it was half-hearted at all! They really went above and beyond with the whole Duo package and pack-in offerings.

I just remember noting at the time, back in '92 or whenever, that the Turbo market was really slipping away from them. Fewer and fewer stores were carrying TG16 games, and those that did were cutting back their inventory. When I saw the Duo arriving on the scene, I recall thinking to myself that this was their "last hurrah", a final attempt to garner some kind of attention and hold on to at least a tiny piece of the market. I can't think of a better way for them to have gone out. But it was already too late, TTI had lost the battle, the writing was on the wall. I really wanted a Duo at the time, but the price tag was waaaay too high. I only got a TG16 a couple years prior because it was $99.99. I think the price of the Duo was something that hurt them in the end. They would've sold more had it been cheaper. But as you said, the cost of hardware is what it is, I'm not sure there was anything they could really do about that.

Yeah, we totally agree with each other . I knew the TG-16 was dead early on and that there was no chance for a revival, especially by the time the Duo came out. I remember thinking, "I want a Duo, but who else would want one?[/i]

NES, Gameboy, Genesis, SNES were so friggin' huge and wildly popular during this era... the TG-16 was lurking in their shadows, if at all.

[Kitsunexus]

johnny turbo was in the back pages of EGM if you didnt read it fo 2 or 3 monhs in 93 then you missed it. but it was no big deal

Well there you go. Nobody reads that shit. The only good thing about EGM is Hsu and Chan (the comic in the back), but of course you can get that here, so it doesn't really matter.

[SNKNostalgia]

I think other factors with the Duo or even the TG-CD around early 92 contributed to the lack of success. The fact that the Sega CD came out and had FMV capabilities, which really got people to buy the system atleast before playing it. Not to mention a lot of people already owned Genesis systems to begin with. Also, the hype that Nintendo was going to make a CD add-on for the SNES. This was in Nintendo Power and other magazines when the SNES just came out. They even had pictures of what the CD-Rom drive might look like. I will admit that if the SNES did have a CD-rom add-on, it would have dominated like crazy. God knows what kind of stuff they could have done. It would have problably been up there with the PS1 2D graphics wise. It might have still been 16-bit instead of 32-bit but they could have done a lot to make it close.