What games should I get?

[nodtveidt]

What Shape Shifter fans don't seem to grasp is the true concept of challenge. There's a major difference between a game being challenging due to clever level design and being challenging due to a sloppily-coded control scheme. If a game is going to be hard, it needs to be hard on its own merits, not hard because it's difficult to control. Shape Shifter is hard because it's difficult to control (and full of cheap-ass hits too, which makes it even worse). Factor in some rather poor coldet with weaponry (such as thrown weapons never hitting enemies on the way back...wtf? even Camp California got THIS right) and it barely gets by with a 4 out of 10. If you have to practice getting used to a sloppy control scheme, then that's not right. And I can honestly say that as both a game player and a game developer.

[runinruder]

What Shape Shifter fans don't seem to grasp is the true concept of challenge. There's a major difference between a game being challenging due to clever level design and being challenging due to a sloppily-coded control scheme. If a game is going to be hard, it needs to be hard on its own merits, not hard because it's difficult to control. Shape Shifter is hard because it's difficult to control (and full of cheap-ass hits too, which makes it even worse). Factor in some rather poor coldet with weaponry (such as thrown weapons never hitting enemies on the way back...wtf? even Camp California got THIS right) and it barely gets by with a 4 out of 10. If you have to practice getting used to a sloppy control scheme, then that's not right. And I can honestly say that as both a game player and a game developer.

Let me break it down for you this way, chief.  If you want to be good at a sport, and you suck at it at first, it's probably not because the equipment you're using is faulty.  If you want to be a writer, and your material sucks at first, it's probably not because there's something wrong with the pencil you're using.  If you want to be a musician, and your first few compositions suck, it probably isn't because your instruments are broken.

Shape Shifter requires practice, but not because its controls suck, as they don't.  The controls feel great when you put in a little time and get good at the game.  Contrast this with games like Night Creatures and Fighting Street.  You can overcome the bad controls in those games and do well in them, but the controls themselves never feel good.  That's not the case in Shape Shifter--well, at least if you're any good at it. 

[guyjin]

Just because you eventually get used to a hammer with a crooked handle doesn't mean it's a good hammer.

[runinruder]

Just because you eventually get used to a hammer with a crooked handle doesn't mean it's a good hammer.

Which is exactly why I brought up Night Creatures and Fighting Street.  Glad you agree with me!

[GUTS]

Anyone who thinks Shape Shifter is difficult to control is a beginner level gamer.  That game is challenging, not cheap, I beat it when I was a punk kid and I couldn't even beat easy stuff like Mega Man 2.  What you beginners need is to go beat some easy games like Bonk's Revenge and Vigilante to get some achievements under your stretched out belts, then come back to Shape Shifter.

[Black Tiger]

Shape Shifter's design isn't perfect. But the kinds of cheap shots it has can be found in other (hit) franchises like Castlevania.

Whats important is that its a fun and rewarding game if you stick with it and make it all the way through.

I believe it should have a few improvements, like unlimited continues. But I think that almost all games are flawed(not fully perfect).

Still, not every game is for everyone and I don't blame anyone for not hanging in there with Shape Shifter if they aren't having enough fun soon enough.

Like many questy retro games, its not casual play friendly.

Anyone who thinks Shape Shifter is difficult to control is a beginner level gamer.  That game is challenging, not cheap, I beat it when I was a punk kid and I couldn't even beat easy stuff like Mega Man 2.  What you beginners need is to go beat some easy games like Bonk's Revenge and Vigilante to get some achievements under your stretched out belts, then come back to Shape Shifter.

I believe that part of the problem is that it doesn't use a traditional jumping(or attacking) style. Its easier to dive into a game that plays just like Mario or something familiar.

Or you don't care for games with sub par play controls

There are plenty of challenging games with good-to-great play control. Shapeshifter is not one of them.

The game seems polished in all other areas though. The graphics are great and really beautiful at times and the effects are nice. The sounds effects are up to snuff and the music is really cool. If your a PCE/DUO lover, then you'll probably forgive the controls. But if this game were on another system, I'm sure it wouldn't fare so well from its fans.

 Ys and Dragon Slayer on your list, that'll keep you happy and busy for a while. I'd go for CF2, DE2, and Ys 3 (maybe - if you can handle the scrolling . After a little while I don't even notice it anymore).

I think that CF2 would fare a lot poorer on other consoles than Shape Shifter. 

[runinruder]

I believe it should have a few improvements, like unlimited continues. But I think that almost all games are flawed(not fully perfect).

I would've liked to have seen it take a cue from the "return" doors in Dragon's Curse that let you get right back to town (and the save spot) when you had just accomplished a task ways away. 

[Arjak]

Wow, I didn't know that Shape Shifter was such a controversial game!

Oh well, I suppose I'll try it anyway, sooner or later.

So, about that J.B. Harold guy...

[nodtveidt]

I'm not usually one to reverse engineer a game (have only done shooters thus far) but I did want to see why the hell Shape Shifter was so wanked up, so I tore it apart. I've never seen such blatantly wrong timing issues under the hood, or such a f*cked up excuse for an FSM. I would rewrite the control scheme if I could but it's so far gone that it would require at least 20% of the entire game engine to be rewritten from scratch. That's the real dirt...chiefs. And you can go on with your middle-school mentality of "oh you sucky players" and cling to your ridiculous "it roxxed when I was a kid!" garbage, it doesn't change the fact that it is a fundamentally broken game inside...and now I've seen why with my own eyes and my own disassembler. I'm so glad I wasn't such a god damned amateur when I started coding a platformer for the PCE, or it'd end up with these ridiculously bad issues. Whoever coded the movement controls for Shape Shifter needs to have his balls rammed down his throat for making such rookie mistakes, and shame on quality control and the testers for letting such issues slip through the cracks (oh wait, that was common back then, wasn't it).

Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.

[Arjak]

I'm not usually one to reverse engineer a game (have only done shooters thus far) but I did want to see why the hell Shape Shifter was so wanked up, so I tore it apart. I've never seen such blatantly wrong timing issues under the hood, or such a f*cked up excuse for an FSM. I would rewrite the control scheme if I could but it's so far gone that it would require at least 20% of the entire game engine to be rewritten from scratch. That's the real dirt...chiefs. And you can go on with your middle-school mentality of "oh you sucky players" and cling to your ridiculous "it roxxed when I was a kid!" garbage, it doesn't change the fact that it is a fundamentally broken game inside...and now I've seen why with my own eyes and my own disassembler. I'm so glad I wasn't such a god damned amateur when I started coding a platformer for the PCE, or it'd end up with these ridiculously bad issues. Whoever coded the movement controls for Shape Shifter needs to have his balls rammed down his throat for making such rookie mistakes, and shame on quality control and the testers for letting such issues slip through the cracks (oh wait, that was common back then, wasn't it).

Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.

Wow, maybe I won't try it, then...

[nodtveidt]

If you're a gamer in a hurry or have limited playtime, give it a miss. If you want to sit down with it for hours on end, listening to the same old terrible voice acting time and time again while unlearning every proper platforming technique you already know just to play this one game, give it a try.

[Arjak]

Okay, I've made my decision:

Shape Shifter is a miss.

But nobody seems willing to tell me about J.B. Harold. What's it like?

[Black Tiger]

Bad controls = bad game, plain and simple. All the flash and cheese doesn't help its case if the game is fundamentally broken. And it is. Deal with it.

You may find Shape Shifter to be a bad game, but bad controls do not always equal a bad game.

Just as good controls do not automatically mean a great game.

[malducci]

I love J.B. Harold. If you like detective style games (going out on a limb, but snatcher is similar), then you'll dig it. It does use fancy (read crappy) full motion video, but instead uses stills and ADPCM voice overs. I would love to play the other J.B. Harolds - are they in english?

[Emerald Rocker]

I reverse engineered Cadash to try to figure out why it controls so sloppily.  I had the noble intentions of making the game play better, but I would have to rewrite 30% of the code, so I said "to hell with that!"

I was going to reverse engineer a few more old games, but then I realized that if I'm going to be wasting time on someone else's game (as opposed to working on my own), I may as well just play those games and have some fun instead.

PS: Cadash is not a CD game, therefore you should get Shape Shifter instead (which is better anyways)