Author Topic: Crazy Vasteel Effects  (Read 398 times)

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Crazy Vasteel Effects
« on: July 12, 2007, 03:19:19 PM »
I've been meaning to play through Vasteel again for some time now, if only to grab some footage of some of the great sfx it uses. Luckily, it turns out that it really does have a 2-Player mode with selectible maps and I was able to find what I was looking for pretty quickly. :)

Over the years, during certain discussions, I've mentioned one particular crazy special effect in Vasteel and have been met with disbelief, told I was exagerating or even called an outright liar.

Well, I finally have a video clip of the effect where one transparent layer of background peels off of itself and warps around on top of an unwarped version of itself-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/vasteel_effects_1.avi


This one doesn't have all the lines through it-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/vasteel_dvd_1.mpg


Magic Engine Save State running the game with this system card-

http://www.superpcenginegrafx.com/CD_F5D10178.me1


I'm hoping to compile several of Vasteel's nicer effects into one video very soon.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 03:51:40 PM by Black Tiger »
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

spenoza

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2751
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2007, 03:34:43 PM »
Well, the game chugs a little because of it, but it's definitely impressive. The one-on-one matches in Vasteel seem to give it the spare cycles it needs.
<a href="http://www.pcedaisakusen.net/2/34/103/show-collection.htm" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">My meager PC Engine Collection so far.</a><br><a href="https://www.pcenginefx.com/forums/" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">PC Engine Software Bible</a><br><a href="http://www.racketboy.com/forum/" c

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2007, 03:53:39 PM »
Well, the game chugs a little because of it, but it's definitely impressive. The one-on-one matches in Vasteel seem to give it the spare cycles it needs.

Its hard to tell how much of it is really slowdown, since those units move slowly anyway. But many of the battles, including those on fairly plain bgs can start to chug. :P
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

Keranu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9054
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2007, 03:57:10 PM »
That's some awesome stuff right there - thanks for uploading so we can all finally see these effects you have spoke about! :)
Quote from: Bonknuts
Adding PCE console specific layer on top of that, makes for an interesting challenge (no, not a reference to Ys II).

nodtveidt

  • Guest
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2007, 04:08:25 PM »
I have never ever ever witnessed any slowdown in Vasteel whatsoever...and I've played through it dozens of times, both characters, on every possible battlefield. Never come across even a second of slowdown at all. I always thought it was awesome that it had zero slowdown.

ccovell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2245
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2007, 04:15:58 PM »
That's a pretty nice effect, totally possible on the PCE/Turbo.  But what's hard to tell from the video is whether it's really transparent.  It looks to me like it's alternating between the static BG and the warped BG 60 times a second.  When there's that slowdown, the alternation slows down as well.

I wouldn't call it "transparent" therefore.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2007, 04:20:44 PM »
That's a pretty nice effect, totally possible on the PCE/Turbo.  But what's hard to tell from the video is whether it's really transparent.  It looks to me like it's alternating between the static BG and the warped BG 60 times a second.  When there's that slowdown, the alternation slows down as well.

I wouldn't call it "transparent" therefore.

Of course its not a 'true' transparency, thats why I call it an 'effect'. :P

And yes, it is alternating between two bgs, which I think is pretty impressive considering what they're doing.

It looks best seeing it on real hardware, but it turns out great in Magic Engine too. :)

There are also a bunch of space bgs that don't warp, but scroll seperately. They're also cool, but the warping bg is what always stood out most for me.

I have never ever ever witnessed any slowdown in Vasteel whatsoever...and I've played through it dozens of times, both characters, on every possible battlefield. Never come across even a second of slowdown at all. I always thought it was awesome that it had zero slowdown.

The way I remember it, there were times when I'd be running from a diagonal lazer and it'd slowdown slightly. But its been a while so maybe I'm mixing memories with another game. :P

There's definitely some big flicker in a couple spots, like the base with the foreground columns. But overall it runs perfectly almost everywhere. :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 04:25:06 PM by Black Tiger »
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

malducci

  • Guest
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2007, 04:22:35 PM »
Hehe - Chris beat me to it. The BG alternates between the sine wave version and the normal version at 60fps. That's why it looks transparent, but's not true transparency (like the blinking shadows in other games).  Choi Anki (sp?) does this effect as well to show a transparent blue curtain in one of the levels, although they don't sinewave the background.

 It's cool, but not overly impressive IMO.

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2007, 04:32:11 PM »
It's cool, but not overly impressive IMO.

Maybe not programming wise to real coders. But its still looks amazing to us 'normies' and its acheiving two 'effects' that the PCE is technically supposed to not be able to do... plus some full screen warping. :)

There are lots of other multiplane bgs as well, plus some foreground layers and 20+ pieces of 'slate' scroling/parallax in carrier to carrier fights.

Sure modern home brewers may have it all figured out, but most PCE games don't have this kinda stuff.  :wink:
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

malducci

  • Guest
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2007, 05:04:41 PM »
It's cool, but not overly impressive IMO.

Maybe not programming wise to real coders. But its still looks amazing to us 'normies' and its acheiving two 'effects' that the PCE is technically supposed to not be able to do... plus some full screen warping. :)

There are lots of other multiplane bgs as well, plus some foreground layers and 20+ pieces of 'slate' scroling/parallax in carrier to carrier fights.

Sure modern home brewers may have it all figured out, but most PCE games don't have this kinda stuff.  :wink:

 Trust me, it wasn't a secret to PCE coders back in the day. The PCE had the same hardware to do the warp effects as the Genesis, SNES, even GB original (hsync interrupts). The effect is pretty easy to do - why a lot of games didn't use it is beyond my reasoning. That was the *first* effect I learned to code on the PCE.

 The multi layers of parallax is the same hardware function as the sine wave, etc. It's just a matter of changing the scroll position (x or Y) for the given scanline.


 Anyway, I was watching your SFII CE video. I'm not sure what capture software you're using, but it helps if you can set the software for 'frame blend' so the 60fps converts to 30fps without missing/blinking 60fps parts.



ccovell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2245
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2007, 05:28:42 PM »
Maybe not programming wise to real coders. But its still looks amazing to us 'normies' and its acheiving two 'effects' that the PCE is technically supposed to not be able to do... plus some full screen warping. :)

So just to clarify, which 2 effects are these?  One 'effect' that you mentioned is the """transparency"""; which is the other that you're referring to that is supposedly technically impossible on the PCE?

Black Tiger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11242
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2007, 05:44:21 PM »
Maybe not programming wise to real coders. But its still looks amazing to us 'normies' and its acheiving two 'effects' that the PCE is technically supposed to not be able to do... plus some full screen warping. :)

So just to clarify, which 2 effects are these?  One 'effect' that you mentioned is the """transparency"""; which is the other that you're referring to that is supposedly technically impossible on the PCE?

'Displaying' more than one scrolling layer of background.
http://www.superpcenginegrafx.net/forum

Active and drama free PC Engine forum

ccovell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2245
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2007, 08:15:58 PM »
Well, of course you can't have transparency without having 2 things of some type on top of each other, so I'd say those 2 effects are part of each other.

At any rate, I have an even better demo that displays 60 backgrounds at the same time!*



*takes 1 second to render  :)

Joe Redifer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8178
Re: Crazy Vasteel Effects
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 08:25:48 PM »
That's some pretty cool effects (... for the Turbo... HA HA!   :D ).  I could deinterlace your video and create a 60fps version of it to show how it would look in real time and it wouldn't have the progressive/interlacing artifacts (the lines) that both of your videos currently do, but after 6 years my Mac finally died (hardware problem).  Will be getting a new Mac soon.  Forced to use my Windows PC for now.