Could someone recommend a little-kid RPG for GUTS?

[Turbo D]

I can recommend to our friend guts to play Ys book 1. Its fairly easy, well, to me at least. All you have to do to kill bad guys is walk into them, haha. It is seriously one of the greatest rpg concepts out there. Well, I guess its more of an action rpg, but he will really enjoy it. If he gets stuck I can walk him through it.

[SignOfZeta]

I can easily see a person getting stuck in an Y's game. There are no plot problems I can see hanging someone up, but the dungeons seem to go on forever. I've cleared Y's 1&2 half a dozen times probably, and I still get frustrated sometimes. Darm Tower, mainly, but also that big pyramid area as well.

[Black Tiger]

Ys II has some terrible design, progression wise. Its like playing a digital comic, where you just continue to try everything everywhere until you make it somewhere new and aren't completely sure exactly how to repeat it.

[GUTS]

The first Ys game was perfect, I have no complaints.  In fact Darm Tower is still one of the best dungeons I've ever played in an action RPG.  But Ys II, f*ck man a couple of the later dungeons were just so huge and boring, they went on for way too long.  I've played through the first Ys a billion times, but part II I've only finished a couple of times due to getting bored on those later dungeons.

[nat]

The "mine" in Ys I annoys me. It reminds me of the part in the old Colossal Cave text adventure where you get stuck in a "maze of twisty little passages, all alike".

[Emerald Rocker]

The complex later dungeons of Ys II are what make the game so much better than the original.

[GUTS]

They're not complex, they're cluster-f*cks.

[esteban]

You guys are crazy if you think the mazes in Ys II are tough / annoying / boring. I'm with Emerald Rocker on this one.

And I think that Darm Tower is pretty damn lame, to be honest. I thought that back in the day, and I still feel that way. It is very repetitive and tedious... and it is a significant chunk of Ys I!!! At least with Ys II, you felt that there were a bunch of big places to explore.

Don't get me wrong: I love Ys I (I've played SMS and TG-CD versions a zillion times)! But if you're going to fault Ys II without faulting Darm Larm Pooparm Tower, well, I think you're wonky.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating slightly to make my point (and for drama), but you get the idea

[Turbo D]

I really enjoyed book 1 and the little bit of book 2 I played before my duo craped out.

[Black Tiger]

You guys are crazy if you think the mazes in Ys II are tough / annoying / boring. I'm with Emerald Rocker on this one.

And I think that Darm Tower is pretty damn lame, to be honest. I thought that back in the day, and I still feel that way. It is very repetitive and tedious... and it is a significant chunk of Ys I!!! At least with Ys II, you felt that there were a bunch of big places to explore.

Don't get me wrong: I love Ys I (I've played SMS and TG-CD versions a zillion times)! But if you're going to fault Ys II without faulting Darm Larm Pooparm Tower, well, I think you're wonky.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating slightly to make my point (and for drama), but you get the idea

Both Ys II and Darm Tower have too much unclear backtracking.

[esteban]

You guys are crazy if you think the mazes in Ys II are tough / annoying / boring. I'm with Emerald Rocker on this one.

And I think that Darm Tower is pretty damn lame, to be honest. I thought that back in the day, and I still feel that way. It is very repetitive and tedious... and it is a significant chunk of Ys I!!! At least with Ys II, you felt that there were a bunch of big places to explore.

Don't get me wrong: I love Ys I (I've played SMS and TG-CD versions a zillion times)! But if you're going to fault Ys II without faulting Darm Larm Pooparm Tower, well, I think you're wonky.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating slightly to make my point (and for drama), but you get the idea

Both Ys II and Darm Tower have too much unclear backtracking.

I actually don't mind the backtracking. I just wanted to make a point about Ys II relative to Ys I. 

[GUTS]

Darm tower actually has some interesting and devious puzzles (breaking the pillar comes to mind, took me years as a kid to figure that one out), the huge dungeons in Ys II do not.  I can't remember a single puzzle in Ys II, yet I can remember nearly every puzzle in Ys.  If Ys II had even one memorable puzzle I might have played through it more often, but the dungeons and puzzles are all entirely forgettable, the only thing that stands out is the story and cinematics.  Huge mazes are not fun.

[runinruder]

Darm tower actually has some interesting and devious puzzles (breaking the pillar comes to mind, took me years as a kid to figure that one out), the huge dungeons in Ys II do not.  I can't remember a single puzzle in Ys II, yet I can remember nearly every puzzle in Ys.  If Ys II had even one memorable puzzle I might have played through it more often, but the dungeons and puzzles are all entirely forgettable, the only thing that stands out is the story and cinematics.  Huge mazes are not fun.

I thought Ys II had some sweet puzzles.  For instance, when you had to put on those earrings to eavesdrop on the monsters, and then you had to turn into a monster yourself to understand what they were saying.

In fact, the ability to change into a monster and talk to any random enemy you wanted to was f*cking awesome, and a lot of them made some pretty funny comments.

Ys II also had Dalles who actually did cool evil stuff instead of just making speeches like the other bad guys, and the exciting bell tower scene where Adol had to make a mad dash to the top in an effort to save a girl's life. 

I agree that the last shrine was too big and got kind of tiresome, though.  But at least it had better music than Darm Tower. 

[esteban]

Darm tower actually has some interesting and devious puzzles (breaking the pillar comes to mind, took me years as a kid to figure that one out), the huge dungeons in Ys II do not.  I can't remember a single puzzle in Ys II, yet I can remember nearly every puzzle in Ys.  If Ys II had even one memorable puzzle I might have played through it more often, but the dungeons and puzzles are all entirely forgettable, the only thing that stands out is the story and cinematics.  Huge mazes are not fun.

I thought Ys II had some sweet puzzles.  For instance, when you had to put on those earrings to eavesdrop on the monsters, and then you had to turn into a monster yourself to understand what they were saying.

In fact, the ability to change into a monster and talk to any random enemy you wanted to was f*cking awesome, and a lot of them made some pretty funny comments.

Ys II also had Dalles who actually did cool evil stuff instead of just making speeches like the other bad guys, and the exciting bell tower scene where Adol had to make a mad dash to the top in an effort to save a girl's life. 

I agree that the last shrine was too big and got kind of tiresome, though.  But at least it had better music than Darm Tower. 

Ahhh, once GUTS clarified his position, I could see where he is coming from. I don't agree that Ys II is totally devoid of enjoyable puzzle-solving, but I do agree that many, many games (in general) fail to be as stimulating as they could be. I don't think Ys II falls short in this respect, but I can appreciate what GUTS is saying. Runin, of course, brings up some great points.

Forgive my faulty grey cells: was it Ys I or Ys II with the sewers that were drained to reveal another level of exploration? I have always loved that! Very, very kool! I'm sure some folks might have felt it was anti-climatic (as opposed to exploring a completely new level), but I loved how the "familiar" had become a brand new maze to navigate / solve ...

[Necromancer]

Forgive my faulty grey cells: was it Ys I or Ys II with the sewers that were drained to reveal another level of exploration? I have always loved that! Very, very kool! I'm sure some folks might have felt it was anti-climatic (as opposed to exploring a completely new level), but I loved how the "familiar" had become a brand new maze to navigate / solve ...

I'm pretty sure that was Ys II.  I remember thinking that the drained sewer was pretty damn cool and unexpected the first time I played it.