2D games versus 3D games

[Turbo D]

What do you do with your DC online?  Mine has a broadband adapter as well.  I can surf the internet using it.  I think POD Speedzone might still work online.  I got online in that game a few years back and the two other guys were absolutely floored that someone else besides them was online.

I just surf the net too 

[Tatsujin]

for 99.9% 2D. simply because it makes my heart feel really warm and gives me an unbelievable big amount of fun!

[GUTS]

I love 2D, but 3D adventure games and shooters are my favorite genres now so I voted 3D.

[esteban]

If I had to choose only one? 2D.

[nodtveidt]

Depends on the game, really. Some 2D games rock and some 3D games rock, as some of both suck. You can't determine the worth of the game by whether it's 2D or 3D. So, I chose "both" because this isn't even a factor for me.

There has long been a debate over whether DOOM and other such games are 2D or 3D. To answer it, consider this: does it look 3D? Does it look like you're moving through a 3D environment? Yes? Okay then...it's 3D. The 3D techniques are simply inferior, as hardware was not capable at the time of utilizing proper 3D mathematics, so the closest approximation was used instead. It's not about the techniques used, it's about how the game appears. If it looks 3D, it is 3D. End of story.

[Keranu]

OMG SILENT DEBUGGERS IS 3D! TURBO RULES ALL OTHER SYSTEMS!

[Black Tiger]

There has long been a debate over whether DOOM and other such games are 2D or 3D. To answer it, consider this: does it look 3D? Does it look like you're moving through a 3D environment? Yes? Okay then...it's 3D. The 3D techniques are simply inferior, as hardware was not capable at the time of utilizing proper 3D mathematics, so the closest approximation was used instead. It's not about the techniques used, it's about how the game appears. If it looks 3D, it is 3D. End of story.

Just like the PC Engine's "fake" layered bgs.

[Joe Redifer]

I'd change the comment of "if it looks 3D, then it is 3D", to "if it plays 3D, then it is 3D".  Doom would be 3D since you move to and fro in a 3D environment.  I guess Silent Debuggers might count as well as the dungeons from Phantasy Star on the Master system.  How about a racing game like Hang-On or Victory Run?  Those are 2D because you don't move in a real 3D environment... the track just line-scrolls back and forth to simulate curves. 

[Black Tiger]

I'd change the comment of "if it looks 3D, then it is 3D", to "if it plays 3D, then it is 3D".  Doom would be 3D since you move to and fro in a 3D environment.  I guess Silent Debuggers might count as well as the dungeons from Phantasy Star on the Master system.  How about a racing game like Hang-On or Victory Run?  Those are 2D because you don't move in a real 3D environment... the track just line-scrolls back and forth to simulate curves. 

Plus all those side scrolling games that use 3D graphics for 2D gameplay. I like them as I like real 2D games.

[Joe Redifer]

Like Klonoa and Clockwork Knight?  Agreed.

[nodtveidt]

Back-view racing games could be considered 3D (like Pole Position!). Anyone ever played Grand Prix on the Atari 2600? Or that Iron Man racing game on the arcade or NES? Neither of those are 3D. However, Outrun and the like would be considered 3D because you're moving technically through a 3D environment, even if the techniques are very primitive...you're still moving along the Z axis as you drive, and controlling the X axis manually...in Outrun, you move along the Y axis as well when you go over hills, and of course, when your suckyass driving "skillz" send you flying through the air. Perspective is a major piece of the pie.

Anyone played Skeleton Warriors? Aside from the fact that it's an ultrashit game, I remember magazines debating over its "3D-ness" back in the day. It uses a 3D environment but only 2D movement, only affecting the X and the Y. So what do you call such a game? Well, if you call it 3D, you'd have to call Dracula for the Sega CD 3D as well, since the visual presentation is very very similar, and no one in their right mind would call that game 3D...except maybe for the neat little pre-rendered level intros it had.

[Dark Fact]

2D hands down.  There is a certain level of charm and quality that goes into 2D that I believe 3D can never properly replicate.  Besides, 2D always had the challenge advantage due to its limitations regarding X and Y planes.  With 3D, you can move in any direction and get an easy strategy on your opponents or movements.  The restrictions that come with 2D make for a greater challenge for the game.

There has long been a debate over whether DOOM and other such games are 2D or 3D. To answer it, consider this: does it look 3D? Does it look like you're moving through a 3D environment? Yes? Okay then...it's 3D. The 3D techniques are simply inferior, as hardware was not capable at the time of utilizing proper 3D mathematics, so the closest approximation was used instead. It's not about the techniques used, it's about how the game appears. If it looks 3D, it is 3D. End of story.

You see, this is where it gets sticky.  The environments look 3D but the actual objects and sprites do not.  Every time I play DOOM, I always see that the characters on screen are just 2D sprites based on a 3D environment.  Their movements appear just as static as ever.  Besides, after you kill a guy or go around an item, they don't change angles based on where you're standing.  They just remain in the same position over and over.  That defeats the purpose of the game being truly 3D right there.  So my point is, DOOM is 3D in one aspect but 2D in all others.

[nodtveidt]

You see, this is where it gets sticky.  The environments look 3D but the actual objects and sprites do not.  Every time I play DOOM, I always see that the characters on screen are just 2D sprites based on a 3D environment.  Their movements appear just as static as ever.  Besides, after you kill a guy or go around an item, they don't change angles based on where you're standing.  They just remain in the same position over and over.  That defeats the purpose of the game being truly 3D right there.  So my point is, DOOM is 3D in one aspect but 2D in all others.

It's not very sticky at all; like I explained, the techniques weren't as advanced back then. Certain things simply don't look the same as we would expect them to look now. Nowadays, games like DOOM would have what are called "billboards" for sprites...they always face in one direction regardless of the perspective and angle of the camera. Be exceptionally careful with the phrase "true 3D" because what it means to one may mean something wholly different to another. To me, for example, "true 3D" doesn't even exist in computer games unless we suddenly have holographic monitors that can actually display a 3D image; on the screen you're looking at right now, it doesn't matter how "realistic" the 3D graphics are, it's always going to be 2D because you cannot truly represent 3D on a 2D plane. It simply cannot be done.

Games that use 3D models but only move in 2D (such as the aforementioned Skeleton Warriors) are still 2D despite using 3D models and a 3D environment. Perspective!

[Black Tiger]

Anyone played Skeleton Warriors? Aside from the fact that it's an ultrashit game, I remember magazines debating over its "3D-ness" back in the day. It uses a 3D environment but only 2D movement, only affecting the X and the Y. So what do you call such a game? Well, if you call it 3D, you'd have to call Dracula for the Sega CD 3D as well, since the visual presentation is very very similar, and no one in their right mind would call that game 3D...except maybe for the neat little pre-rendered level intros it had.

Last night I tried Air's Adventure for Saturn for the first time. Its like the 32-bit successor to Dracula Sega-CD.

Skeleton Warriors was also heavy on prerendered '3D' characters.


As for sprites un-3D'ing 3D'ish titles like Doom, even Xbox/PS2/GC games uses sprites for effects like smoke and fire. There are probably a bunch in 360 & PS3 games too.